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	<title>Comments on: Nic Lewis on IPCC Climate Sensitivity</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2011/07/05/nic-lewis-on-ipcc-climate-sensitivity/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/07/05/nic-lewis-on-ipcc-climate-sensitivity/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 14:30:08 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Skiphil</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/07/05/nic-lewis-on-ipcc-climate-sensitivity/#comment-412612</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Skiphil]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Apr 2013 13:32:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14094#comment-412612</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re:  Ben Franklin quotation

Yes, but in that case he had a truly noble cause, whereas in the Mann-SkS case we get only the Noble Cause Corruption.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re:  Ben Franklin quotation</p>
<p>Yes, but in that case he had a truly noble cause, whereas in the Mann-SkS case we get only the Noble Cause Corruption.</p>
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		<title>By: kim</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/07/05/nic-lewis-on-ipcc-climate-sensitivity/#comment-412582</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Apr 2013 10:52:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14094#comment-412582</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Golden chains wreathe narrative bouquets, and bind the perfumed fools so fast.
========]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Golden chains wreathe narrative bouquets, and bind the perfumed fools so fast.<br />
========</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Brandon Shollenberger</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/07/05/nic-lewis-on-ipcc-climate-sensitivity/#comment-412568</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brandon Shollenberger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Apr 2013 09:31:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14094#comment-412568</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[More interesting to me is the byline, &quot;By Dana Nuccitelli and Michael E Mann.&quot;  The article is your typical garbage, but it seems SKS and Michael Mann are starting to &quot;come out of the closet.&quot;  That&#039;s interesting because SKS and Stephan Lewandowsky are also allowing themselves to become publicly associated.  That means SKS, Lewandowsky and Mann are all basically grouping themselves together.

I think that&#039;s a tactical blunder.  I think Dana Nuccitelli and John Cook will likely benefit from the additional publicity, but by grouping themselves together, I think this group will polarize itself too much.  Anyone who shuns the behavior of SKS, Mann or Lewandowsky et al will now (basically) be forced to shun all of them.  None of them behave well, and if this keeps up, it&#039;ll be seen as reasonable to smear them with the failures of each other.  I believe Benjamin Franklin said something to the effect of:

&lt;blockquote&gt;We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That seems to apply to what we&#039;re seeing here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More interesting to me is the byline, &#8220;By Dana Nuccitelli and Michael E Mann.&#8221;  The article is your typical garbage, but it seems SKS and Michael Mann are starting to &#8220;come out of the closet.&#8221;  That&#8217;s interesting because SKS and Stephan Lewandowsky are also allowing themselves to become publicly associated.  That means SKS, Lewandowsky and Mann are all basically grouping themselves together.</p>
<p>I think that&#8217;s a tactical blunder.  I think Dana Nuccitelli and John Cook will likely benefit from the additional publicity, but by grouping themselves together, I think this group will polarize itself too much.  Anyone who shuns the behavior of SKS, Mann or Lewandowsky et al will now (basically) be forced to shun all of them.  None of them behave well, and if this keeps up, it&#8217;ll be seen as reasonable to smear them with the failures of each other.  I believe Benjamin Franklin said something to the effect of:</p>
<blockquote><p>We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.</p></blockquote>
<p>That seems to apply to what we&#8217;re seeing here.</p>
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		<title>By: Skiphil</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/07/05/nic-lewis-on-ipcc-climate-sensitivity/#comment-412417</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Skiphil]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Apr 2013 18:43:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14094#comment-412417</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not a scientific paper but M. Mann and Dana N. are hand-waving a defense of a &quot;canonical&quot; value for climate sensitivity of 3C in response to the recent article in &quot;The Economist&quot; -- interesting to see how millenial multi-proxy studies are supposed to help resolve CS debate in Mann&#039;s favor:
[emphasis added]
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.abc.net.au/environment/articles/2013/04/12/3735095.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mann and Dana N. on climate sensitivity&lt;/a&gt; 

&lt;blockquote&gt;
...However, there is a wealth of other sources of information that scientists have used to try to constrain climate sensitivity (see for example this discussion at the site RealClimate). &lt;b&gt;That evidence includes the paleoclimate record of the past thousand years, the specific response of the climate to volcanic eruptions&lt;/b&gt; , the changes in global temperature during the last ice age, the geological relationship between climate and carbon dioxide over millions of years, and more.

When the collective information from all of these independent sources of information is combined, climate scientists indeed find evidence for a climate sensitivity that is very close to the canonical 3°C estimate. That estimate still remains the scientific consensus, and current generation climate models — which tend to cluster in their climate sensitivity values around this estimate — remain our best tools for projecting future climate change and its potential impacts....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not a scientific paper but M. Mann and Dana N. are hand-waving a defense of a &#8220;canonical&#8221; value for climate sensitivity of 3C in response to the recent article in &#8220;The Economist&#8221; &#8212; interesting to see how millenial multi-proxy studies are supposed to help resolve CS debate in Mann&#8217;s favor:<br />
[emphasis added]<br />
<a href="http://www.abc.net.au/environment/articles/2013/04/12/3735095.htm" rel="nofollow">Mann and Dana N. on climate sensitivity</a> </p>
<blockquote><p>
&#8230;However, there is a wealth of other sources of information that scientists have used to try to constrain climate sensitivity (see for example this discussion at the site RealClimate). <b>That evidence includes the paleoclimate record of the past thousand years, the specific response of the climate to volcanic eruptions</b> , the changes in global temperature during the last ice age, the geological relationship between climate and carbon dioxide over millions of years, and more.</p>
<p>When the collective information from all of these independent sources of information is combined, climate scientists indeed find evidence for a climate sensitivity that is very close to the canonical 3°C estimate. That estimate still remains the scientific consensus, and current generation climate models — which tend to cluster in their climate sensitivity values around this estimate — remain our best tools for projecting future climate change and its potential impacts&#8230;.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: AntonyIndia</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/07/05/nic-lewis-on-ipcc-climate-sensitivity/#comment-397580</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AntonyIndia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2013 13:22:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14094#comment-397580</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Any comments from Steve McIntyre on the contributions to IPCC&#039;s climate sensitivity reporting of Steve Jewson starting @ http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2013/01/on-sensitivity-part-i/comment-page-2/#comment-314549 as republished at BH or his 2009 publication about this matter @  http://arxiv.org/pdf/1005.3907?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any comments from Steve McIntyre on the contributions to IPCC&#8217;s climate sensitivity reporting of Steve Jewson starting @ <a href="http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2013/01/on-sensitivity-part-i/comment-page-2/#comment-314549" rel="nofollow">http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2013/01/on-sensitivity-part-i/comment-page-2/#comment-314549</a> as republished at BH or his 2009 publication about this matter @  <a href="http://arxiv.org/pdf/1005.3907" rel="nofollow">http://arxiv.org/pdf/1005.3907</a>?</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Skiphil</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/07/05/nic-lewis-on-ipcc-climate-sensitivity/#comment-386981</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Skiphil]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2012 09:17:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14094#comment-386981</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[oops, here&#039;s a link:


http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2012/12/19/climate-sensitivity-is-low.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oops, here&#8217;s a link:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2012/12/19/climate-sensitivity-is-low.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2012/12/19/climate-sensitivity-is-low.html</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Skiphil</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/07/05/nic-lewis-on-ipcc-climate-sensitivity/#comment-386980</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Skiphil]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2012 09:16:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14094#comment-386980</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[new thread at BH discussing article by Matt Ridley, who summarizes where he thinks the climate sensitivity discussion is going]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>new thread at BH discussing article by Matt Ridley, who summarizes where he thinks the climate sensitivity discussion is going</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: RuhRoh</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/07/05/nic-lewis-on-ipcc-climate-sensitivity/#comment-306292</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RuhRoh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Oct 2011 20:49:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14094#comment-306292</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bayesian Analysis Loses Some Cachet

from

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/05/bayes_formula/;

Or at least, it shouldn&#039;t be relied upon as it has been in recent years: according to the judge, before any expert witness plugs data into the theorem to brief the jury on the likelihood that a defendant is guilty, the underlying statistics should be &quot;firm&quot; rather than rough estimates.

Apparently from here;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2011/oct/02/formula-justice-bayes-theorem-miscarriage?INTCMP=SRCH]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bayesian Analysis Loses Some Cachet</p>
<p>from</p>
<p><a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/05/bayes_formula/" rel="nofollow">http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/05/bayes_formula/</a>;</p>
<p>Or at least, it shouldn&#8217;t be relied upon as it has been in recent years: according to the judge, before any expert witness plugs data into the theorem to brief the jury on the likelihood that a defendant is guilty, the underlying statistics should be &#8220;firm&#8221; rather than rough estimates.</p>
<p>Apparently from here;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2011/oct/02/formula-justice-bayes-theorem-miscarriage?INTCMP=SRCH" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2011/oct/02/formula-justice-bayes-theorem-miscarriage?INTCMP=SRCH</a></p>
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		<title>By: Richard Drake</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/07/05/nic-lewis-on-ipcc-climate-sensitivity/#comment-297639</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Drake]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 23:45:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14094#comment-297639</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There&#039;s an &lt;a href=&quot;http://judithcurry.com/2011/07/07/climate-sensitivity-follow-up/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;important follow-up&lt;/a&gt; from Nic in the form of a letter to Gabi Hegerl. Evidently a uniform prior over S was not &#039;uniformly&#039; applied, as the caption stated - because if it had been, it would have shown how ridiculous this was in the case of Gregory 02 and others. Oh my, oh my. Great investigative work, Lewis. (But wasn&#039;t he a detective in Oxford? McIntyre as Morse, the younger sidekick: it all begins to make sense.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s an <a href="http://judithcurry.com/2011/07/07/climate-sensitivity-follow-up/" rel="nofollow">important follow-up</a> from Nic in the form of a letter to Gabi Hegerl. Evidently a uniform prior over S was not &#8216;uniformly&#8217; applied, as the caption stated &#8211; because if it had been, it would have shown how ridiculous this was in the case of Gregory 02 and others. Oh my, oh my. Great investigative work, Lewis. (But wasn&#8217;t he a detective in Oxford? McIntyre as Morse, the younger sidekick: it all begins to make sense.)</p>
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		<title>By: ferd berple</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/07/05/nic-lewis-on-ipcc-climate-sensitivity/#comment-297605</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ferd berple]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 17:43:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14094#comment-297605</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There would appear to be no valid statistical reason to assume uniform priors.  That assumption is used when you know nothing about the distribution.

In this case we know something about the distribution, based on the paleo reconstructions.  As CO2 levels have gone up and down, earth&#039;s average temperature has kept within a narrow band of 11 - 22 C.  

With current temperatures at 14.5, if you are going to use a uniform prior, then it should be in the range of -3.5 to 7.5.  Not 1-18.5 as chose,  That would have the effect of skewing the estimate towards an unrealistically high value.

In any case, using the paleo data, one can build a distribution for CO2 and temperature that makes no assumption about uniform distribution.  Once that is established, the appropriate statistical treatment will be obvious.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There would appear to be no valid statistical reason to assume uniform priors.  That assumption is used when you know nothing about the distribution.</p>
<p>In this case we know something about the distribution, based on the paleo reconstructions.  As CO2 levels have gone up and down, earth&#8217;s average temperature has kept within a narrow band of 11 &#8211; 22 C.  </p>
<p>With current temperatures at 14.5, if you are going to use a uniform prior, then it should be in the range of -3.5 to 7.5.  Not 1-18.5 as chose,  That would have the effect of skewing the estimate towards an unrealistically high value.</p>
<p>In any case, using the paleo data, one can build a distribution for CO2 and temperature that makes no assumption about uniform distribution.  Once that is established, the appropriate statistical treatment will be obvious.</p>
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