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	<title>Comments on: Osborn: &#8220;I don&#8217;t have any core measurement data and therefore have none to give out!&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2011/07/25/osborn-i-dont-have-any-core-measurement-data-and-therefore-have-none-to-give-out/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/07/25/osborn-i-dont-have-any-core-measurement-data-and-therefore-have-none-to-give-out/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 18 Jun 2013 08:21:39 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: R.S.Brown</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/07/25/osborn-i-dont-have-any-core-measurement-data-and-therefore-have-none-to-give-out/#comment-299430</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[R.S.Brown]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2011 23:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14249#comment-299430</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pat,

Many thanks for the link:

http://www.uea.ac.uk/is/itregs/ICT+Contingency+Plan+-+Top+Level

In 21 pages the &quot;Plan&quot; tells us what happens in various scenarios of threat/damage to
the computer/communications systems at the University of East Anglia.  

However, there isn&#039;t a single word about why the &quot;Strategy Development Manager&quot; who was
a co-author of the plan would be responding to any FOI/ERI requests to the Climate Research
Unit.

The &quot;Plan&quot; involves securing and/or restoring data and system funtionanlity, not the
dissemination of information held within the system in compliance with FOI/ERI laws.

If Raymond Scott was also the designated FOI officer for UEA, why isn&#039;t he using that
as part of his title when responding to FOI requests on behalf of his employer ?

More ???]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pat,</p>
<p>Many thanks for the link:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.uea.ac.uk/is/itregs/ICT+Contingency+Plan+-+Top+Level" rel="nofollow">http://www.uea.ac.uk/is/itregs/ICT+Contingency+Plan+-+Top+Level</a></p>
<p>In 21 pages the &#8220;Plan&#8221; tells us what happens in various scenarios of threat/damage to<br />
the computer/communications systems at the University of East Anglia.  </p>
<p>However, there isn&#8217;t a single word about why the &#8220;Strategy Development Manager&#8221; who was<br />
a co-author of the plan would be responding to any FOI/ERI requests to the Climate Research<br />
Unit.</p>
<p>The &#8220;Plan&#8221; involves securing and/or restoring data and system funtionanlity, not the<br />
dissemination of information held within the system in compliance with FOI/ERI laws.</p>
<p>If Raymond Scott was also the designated FOI officer for UEA, why isn&#8217;t he using that<br />
as part of his title when responding to FOI requests on behalf of his employer ?</p>
<p>More ???</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Faustino</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/07/25/osborn-i-dont-have-any-core-measurement-data-and-therefore-have-none-to-give-out/#comment-299429</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Faustino]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2011 22:23:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14249#comment-299429</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Richard Black from the BBC e-mailed me that: &quot;The information I have indicates it was stolen.&quot;  He did not provide any details.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard Black from the BBC e-mailed me that: &#8220;The information I have indicates it was stolen.&#8221;  He did not provide any details.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
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		<title>By: pat</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/07/25/osborn-i-dont-have-any-core-measurement-data-and-therefore-have-none-to-give-out/#comment-299413</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:06:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14249#comment-299413</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[R.S. Brown -

Raymond Scott involved here:

UEA - ICT Contingency Plan - Top Level Plan
Document Control Information
http://www.uea.ac.uk/is/itregs/ICT+Contingency+Plan+-+Top+Level]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>R.S. Brown -</p>
<p>Raymond Scott involved here:</p>
<p>UEA &#8211; ICT Contingency Plan &#8211; Top Level Plan<br />
Document Control Information<br />
<a href="http://www.uea.ac.uk/is/itregs/ICT+Contingency+Plan+-+Top+Level" rel="nofollow">http://www.uea.ac.uk/is/itregs/ICT+Contingency+Plan+-+Top+Level</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: ferd berple</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/07/25/osborn-i-dont-have-any-core-measurement-data-and-therefore-have-none-to-give-out/#comment-299411</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ferd berple]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:51:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14249#comment-299411</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It reminds me of a short story years ago in which the civil service ran a pool to see who could tick off the public the most.  At the end of the week everyone would tell their tales and the winner would get the pot.  All and all it made for great entertainment to end the week on a high note.

Now when a marketing agent calls for &quot;Mrs Berple&quot; I ask them to hold while I fetch her, as she is out in the garden.  Every few minutes I pick up the line to assure them she is on  her way, while proving a new excuse for the delay.  It is amazing how long folks can be kept dangling.

The clincher is to then cut yourself off mid sentence while explaining the delay.  Few will believe you cut yourself off on purpose so they will try back.  And of course as you explain, Mrs. Berple was at hand, but went back to the garden when the line was dropped.  Please hold while I fetch her again.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It reminds me of a short story years ago in which the civil service ran a pool to see who could tick off the public the most.  At the end of the week everyone would tell their tales and the winner would get the pot.  All and all it made for great entertainment to end the week on a high note.</p>
<p>Now when a marketing agent calls for &#8220;Mrs Berple&#8221; I ask them to hold while I fetch her, as she is out in the garden.  Every few minutes I pick up the line to assure them she is on  her way, while proving a new excuse for the delay.  It is amazing how long folks can be kept dangling.</p>
<p>The clincher is to then cut yourself off mid sentence while explaining the delay.  Few will believe you cut yourself off on purpose so they will try back.  And of course as you explain, Mrs. Berple was at hand, but went back to the garden when the line was dropped.  Please hold while I fetch her again.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: ferd berple</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/07/25/osborn-i-dont-have-any-core-measurement-data-and-therefore-have-none-to-give-out/#comment-299410</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ferd berple]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14249#comment-299410</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For example, how many times in school and university were you required to &quot;show your work&quot; to receive full marks?  If you simply wrote &quot;42&quot; as the answer it wasn&#039;t sufficient.  You had to show how you arrived at 42.

Don&#039;t we have the same situation with the CRU?  They have written study after study saying &quot;the answer is 42&quot;.  When asked to &quot;show their work&quot; they have failed.  Until they show their work, shouldn&#039;t that be the grade that their papers receive?  Failed.  

Isn&#039;t that the grade they would give their students that &quot;failed to show their work&quot;?  Why should professors not have to show their work when they require that their students show theirs?  Does one suddenly acquire super human skills when made a professor such that mistakes are impossible and your work is held above question?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For example, how many times in school and university were you required to &#8220;show your work&#8221; to receive full marks?  If you simply wrote &#8220;42&#8243; as the answer it wasn&#8217;t sufficient.  You had to show how you arrived at 42.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t we have the same situation with the CRU?  They have written study after study saying &#8220;the answer is 42&#8243;.  When asked to &#8220;show their work&#8221; they have failed.  Until they show their work, shouldn&#8217;t that be the grade that their papers receive?  Failed.  </p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t that the grade they would give their students that &#8220;failed to show their work&#8221;?  Why should professors not have to show their work when they require that their students show theirs?  Does one suddenly acquire super human skills when made a professor such that mistakes are impossible and your work is held above question?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: ferd berple</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/07/25/osborn-i-dont-have-any-core-measurement-data-and-therefore-have-none-to-give-out/#comment-299407</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ferd berple]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:25:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14249#comment-299407</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Phil Jones has already told us why they don&#039;t want to provide the data.  Because they are afraid that it will be used to prove that the conclusions in the associated studies were in error.  

By simply withholding the data it remains impossible for anyone to prove the associated studies wrong.  New studies with new data may contradict the earlier studies, but these new studies can always be argued against without any firm conclusion possible.

The bigger question is why anyone in science would trust any study in which the data and methods were hidden?  It should be automatic in science that papers that are submitted without the supporting data cannot pass peer review.  Otherwise, how could the reviewer have check the results for accuracy?

The same holds after a paper is published.  If the data and methods are not provided, how can anyone recreate the results?  If the results have not been recreated and validated, how can anyone trust the paper?

Isn&#039;t this discussion really about scientific standard - or in point of fact lack of standards in science?  Standards are the very basis of trusted, reliable results in industry.  It seems that science as practiced by academics has a long ways to go to catch up.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil Jones has already told us why they don&#8217;t want to provide the data.  Because they are afraid that it will be used to prove that the conclusions in the associated studies were in error.  </p>
<p>By simply withholding the data it remains impossible for anyone to prove the associated studies wrong.  New studies with new data may contradict the earlier studies, but these new studies can always be argued against without any firm conclusion possible.</p>
<p>The bigger question is why anyone in science would trust any study in which the data and methods were hidden?  It should be automatic in science that papers that are submitted without the supporting data cannot pass peer review.  Otherwise, how could the reviewer have check the results for accuracy?</p>
<p>The same holds after a paper is published.  If the data and methods are not provided, how can anyone recreate the results?  If the results have not been recreated and validated, how can anyone trust the paper?</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t this discussion really about scientific standard &#8211; or in point of fact lack of standards in science?  Standards are the very basis of trusted, reliable results in industry.  It seems that science as practiced by academics has a long ways to go to catch up.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Geoff Sherrington</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/07/25/osborn-i-dont-have-any-core-measurement-data-and-therefore-have-none-to-give-out/#comment-299400</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Geoff Sherrington]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2011 09:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14249#comment-299400</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was refused access to proceedings from an Australian Government conference in Hobart late last year. The advertising blurb said the conference was suitable for students and people entering climate science. The rejection, via the Shadowm Minister for the Environment whom I&#039;d asked for help, noted that the conference discussed concepts that were in development and therefore not suitable for the formality of distribution to the public. This is another small example of transparency. Propaganda for the youngsters, no meat for the elders.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was refused access to proceedings from an Australian Government conference in Hobart late last year. The advertising blurb said the conference was suitable for students and people entering climate science. The rejection, via the Shadowm Minister for the Environment whom I&#8217;d asked for help, noted that the conference discussed concepts that were in development and therefore not suitable for the formality of distribution to the public. This is another small example of transparency. Propaganda for the youngsters, no meat for the elders.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: R.S.Brown</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/07/25/osborn-i-dont-have-any-core-measurement-data-and-therefore-have-none-to-give-out/#comment-299395</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[R.S.Brown]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2011 08:23:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14249#comment-299395</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steve:

A listing of the Freedom of Information requests received by the University of East 
Anglia’s Climate Research Unit and their status from 1 January 2005 until 22 December 
2009 can be found at:

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/25032/response/66822/attach/2/Response%20letter%20199%20100121.pdf

Please note: This information comes from CRU,  &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt; However &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt; the introductory
paragraphs specifically refer to the Freedom of Information Act but make &lt;i&gt;no&lt;/i&gt; mention 
of requests made exclusively under the Environmental Information Regulations (EIR).  The 
requestor did &lt;i&gt;not &lt;/i&gt; include any EIR-based requests, so he got exactly what he asked for.

Please also note the title of the University of East Anglia employee who sent 
the FOI response letter out to the requestor:

Raymond Scott   -   Strategy Development Manager   -  University of East Anglia

Strategy Development ?  What was that about ?

There seems to be no requests pending for an update.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve:</p>
<p>A listing of the Freedom of Information requests received by the University of East<br />
Anglia’s Climate Research Unit and their status from 1 January 2005 until 22 December<br />
2009 can be found at:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/25032/response/66822/attach/2/Response%20letter%20199%20100121.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/25032/response/66822/attach/2/Response%20letter%20199%20100121.pdf</a></p>
<p>Please note: This information comes from CRU,  <b><i> However </i></b> the introductory<br />
paragraphs specifically refer to the Freedom of Information Act but make <i>no</i> mention<br />
of requests made exclusively under the Environmental Information Regulations (EIR).  The<br />
requestor did <i>not </i> include any EIR-based requests, so he got exactly what he asked for.</p>
<p>Please also note the title of the University of East Anglia employee who sent<br />
the FOI response letter out to the requestor:</p>
<p>Raymond Scott   &#8211;   Strategy Development Manager   &#8211;  University of East Anglia</p>
<p>Strategy Development ?  What was that about ?</p>
<p>There seems to be no requests pending for an update.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: kim</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/07/25/osborn-i-dont-have-any-core-measurement-data-and-therefore-have-none-to-give-out/#comment-299393</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2011 07:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14249#comment-299393</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[BBC reports
Climate flood gates are broken.
Harry, read me more.
============]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BBC reports<br />
Climate flood gates are broken.<br />
Harry, read me more.<br />
============</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: jae</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/07/25/osborn-i-dont-have-any-core-measurement-data-and-therefore-have-none-to-give-out/#comment-299382</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jae]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2011 03:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14249#comment-299382</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steve: You are definitely a saint in scientific circles.  Thanks for your perseverance and integrity!  WOW!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve: You are definitely a saint in scientific circles.  Thanks for your perseverance and integrity!  WOW!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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