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	<title>Comments on: Hansen, WG3 and Green Kool-aid</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2011/08/13/hansen-and-ipccs-green-kool-aid/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/08/13/hansen-and-ipccs-green-kool-aid/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
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		<title>By: Hansen, WG3 and Green Kool-aid &#171; Bee Auditor</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/08/13/hansen-and-ipccs-green-kool-aid/#comment-302034</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hansen, WG3 and Green Kool-aid &#171; Bee Auditor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2011 14:29:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14360#comment-302034</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Source: http://climateaudit.org/2011/08/13/hansen-and-ipccs-green-kool-aid/ [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Source: <a href="http://climateaudit.org/2011/08/13/hansen-and-ipccs-green-kool-aid/" rel="nofollow">http://climateaudit.org/2011/08/13/hansen-and-ipccs-green-kool-aid/</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bebben</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/08/13/hansen-and-ipccs-green-kool-aid/#comment-301440</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bebben]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Aug 2011 23:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14360#comment-301440</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steve, Walter Russel Mead used the same phrase in a similar way in his post-Climategate and COP-15 blogpost &quot;How Al Gore Wrecked Planet Earth&quot;: 

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2010/02/19/how-al-gore-wrecked-planet-earth/

&quot;The climate change movement now needs to regroup, and at some point it will have to confront a central, unpalatable fact: the wounds from which it is bleeding so profusely are mostly its own fault. (...) 
&quot;Foundation staff, activists and sympathetic journalists cocooned themselves in an echo chamber of comfortable group-think, and as they toasted one another in green Kool-Aid they thought they were making progress when actually they were slowly and painfully digging themselves into an ever-deeper hole.&quot; 

From February 19, 2010, post-Climategate and pre-inquiries - I think it&#039;s still worth a read.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, Walter Russel Mead used the same phrase in a similar way in his post-Climategate and COP-15 blogpost &#8220;How Al Gore Wrecked Planet Earth&#8221;: </p>
<p><a href="http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2010/02/19/how-al-gore-wrecked-planet-earth/" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2010/02/19/how-al-gore-wrecked-planet-earth/</a></p>
<p>&#8220;The climate change movement now needs to regroup, and at some point it will have to confront a central, unpalatable fact: the wounds from which it is bleeding so profusely are mostly its own fault. (&#8230;)<br />
&#8220;Foundation staff, activists and sympathetic journalists cocooned themselves in an echo chamber of comfortable group-think, and as they toasted one another in green Kool-Aid they thought they were making progress when actually they were slowly and painfully digging themselves into an ever-deeper hole.&#8221; </p>
<p>From February 19, 2010, post-Climategate and pre-inquiries &#8211; I think it&#8217;s still worth a read.</p>
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		<title>By: Il segreto è nell'asticella &#124; Climate Monitor</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/08/13/hansen-and-ipccs-green-kool-aid/#comment-301330</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Il segreto è nell'asticella &#124; Climate Monitor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:02:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14360#comment-301330</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] voilà. Dal blog di Steve McIntyre, le immagini e l&#8217;idea. Cambiano gli anni e le proiezioni temporali, restano salde le utopie. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] voilà. Dal blog di Steve McIntyre, le immagini e l&#8217;idea. Cambiano gli anni e le proiezioni temporali, restano salde le utopie. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Don McIlvin</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/08/13/hansen-and-ipccs-green-kool-aid/#comment-301145</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Don McIlvin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2011 03:56:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14360#comment-301145</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In regard to &quot;Your comment is awaiting moderation&quot;

In the IPCC &quot;report&quot; is the statement that the right level of investment in renewable energy can displace fossil fuel based energy production. I don&#039;t see how a minor comment on the economic prudence of a displacement strategy vs. adaptation - is OT.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In regard to &#8220;Your comment is awaiting moderation&#8221;</p>
<p>In the IPCC &#8220;report&#8221; is the statement that the right level of investment in renewable energy can displace fossil fuel based energy production. I don&#8217;t see how a minor comment on the economic prudence of a displacement strategy vs. adaptation &#8211; is OT.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Bradley</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/08/13/hansen-and-ipccs-green-kool-aid/#comment-301077</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rob Bradley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 01:08:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14360#comment-301077</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Some energy history on Amory Lovins is here: http://www.masterresource.org/2011/05/birth-conservationism-ii-amory-lovins/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some energy history on Amory Lovins is here: <a href="http://www.masterresource.org/2011/05/birth-conservationism-ii-amory-lovins/" rel="nofollow">http://www.masterresource.org/2011/05/birth-conservationism-ii-amory-lovins/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bryan Leyland</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/08/13/hansen-and-ipccs-green-kool-aid/#comment-301018</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bryan Leyland]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 10:30:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14360#comment-301018</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Phil,

I have been more than 45 years in the hydro industry.  I have done studies on real pumped storage schemes.  They store enough water for 6-10 hours and they have losses of 25%.  The storage is vey expensive.

For it to be useful for wind/solar, we need to store energy for days weeks and even months.  There are very, very few sites in the world that will allow you to do this.  And if there were there are still major problems.  To provide all the power for a 10,000 MW load from wind requires 30,000 MW of wind and 20,000 MW of pumped storage.  50,000 MW of capacity for 10,000 MW of load.  Guess the cost!

But the BIG problem is that you can&#039;t find sites with ~700 m head difference capable of storing huge amounts of water in a head pond and a tail pond.  Or the water required to makeup for evaporation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil,</p>
<p>I have been more than 45 years in the hydro industry.  I have done studies on real pumped storage schemes.  They store enough water for 6-10 hours and they have losses of 25%.  The storage is vey expensive.</p>
<p>For it to be useful for wind/solar, we need to store energy for days weeks and even months.  There are very, very few sites in the world that will allow you to do this.  And if there were there are still major problems.  To provide all the power for a 10,000 MW load from wind requires 30,000 MW of wind and 20,000 MW of pumped storage.  50,000 MW of capacity for 10,000 MW of load.  Guess the cost!</p>
<p>But the BIG problem is that you can&#8217;t find sites with ~700 m head difference capable of storing huge amounts of water in a head pond and a tail pond.  Or the water required to makeup for evaporation.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeroen B.</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/08/13/hansen-and-ipccs-green-kool-aid/#comment-301017</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeroen B.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 10:18:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14360#comment-301017</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dunno if it helps but --

http://catb.org/esr/jargon/html/K/Kool-Aid.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dunno if it helps but &#8211;</p>
<p><a href="http://catb.org/esr/jargon/html/K/Kool-Aid.html" rel="nofollow">http://catb.org/esr/jargon/html/K/Kool-Aid.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Navy Bob</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/08/13/hansen-and-ipccs-green-kool-aid/#comment-300908</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Navy Bob]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2011 14:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14360#comment-300908</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mesa - hope this doesn&#039;t violate Steve&#039;s world realpolitik prohibition 

snip - if you have to ask the question, it probably does.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mesa &#8211; hope this doesn&#8217;t violate Steve&#8217;s world realpolitik prohibition </p>
<p>snip &#8211; if you have to ask the question, it probably does.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/08/13/hansen-and-ipccs-green-kool-aid/#comment-300903</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve McIntyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2011 12:49:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14360#comment-300903</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[no more ruminations on world realpolitik please, interesting as they may be. Too far afield from Hansen&#039;s Kool-aid.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>no more ruminations on world realpolitik please, interesting as they may be. Too far afield from Hansen&#8217;s Kool-aid.</p>
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		<title>By: Mesa</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2011/08/13/hansen-and-ipccs-green-kool-aid/#comment-300902</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mesa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2011 12:44:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=14360#comment-300902</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think the point is missed that the Middle East / North Africa can largely control the price of the world&#039;s inelastic demand for gasoline.  That&#039;s why we spend so much money militarily to guarantee a reliable flow of oil through that region.  The end point of the shipments of a fungible commodity like oil isn&#039;t as important as the large market share of OPEC (40% or so).  You&#039;ve also got some South American risk in the supply I would say.  If you look at the spike in oil prices when one or two producers get taken offline you can see the point.  The real proof is in the military actions of the US in the region - why else would we care so much?  I think the Canadians reading here have a very different perspective - probably justifiably so.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the point is missed that the Middle East / North Africa can largely control the price of the world&#8217;s inelastic demand for gasoline.  That&#8217;s why we spend so much money militarily to guarantee a reliable flow of oil through that region.  The end point of the shipments of a fungible commodity like oil isn&#8217;t as important as the large market share of OPEC (40% or so).  You&#8217;ve also got some South American risk in the supply I would say.  If you look at the spike in oil prices when one or two producers get taken offline you can see the point.  The real proof is in the military actions of the US in the region &#8211; why else would we care so much?  I think the Canadians reading here have a very different perspective &#8211; probably justifiably so.</p>
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