<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Royal Society Report on Data Sharing</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2012/06/21/royal-society-report-on-data-sharing/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/06/21/royal-society-report-on-data-sharing/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 15:32:22 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: hro001</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/06/21/royal-society-report-on-data-sharing/#comment-340107</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hro001]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2012 23:24:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16333#comment-340107</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, I just saw this column from Boulton.  Perhaps he has finally seen the light, and is using this column to do &quot;penance&quot;-  not only for the questionable use of &quot;citizen scientists&quot; in the RS report, but also for his role in Muir Russell.

Some other quotable quotes from this article:

&lt;blockquote&gt;True openness requires data to be not only accessible, but also intelligible, assessable (who produced the data, what are their qualifications, do they have conflicts of interest?) and reusable. [IPCC, pls take note! -hro]
[...]
Too often, we scientists seek patterns in data that reflect our preconceived ideas. And when we do publish the data, we too frequently publish only those that support these ideas. This cherry-picking is bad practice and should stop. [Joelle Gergis, are you listening? -hro]
[...]
And above all, &lt;strong&gt;we need scientists to accept that publicly funded research is a public resource&lt;/strong&gt;. [emphasis added -hro]&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I just saw this column from Boulton.  Perhaps he has finally seen the light, and is using this column to do &#8220;penance&#8221;-  not only for the questionable use of &#8220;citizen scientists&#8221; in the RS report, but also for his role in Muir Russell.</p>
<p>Some other quotable quotes from this article:</p>
<blockquote><p>True openness requires data to be not only accessible, but also intelligible, assessable (who produced the data, what are their qualifications, do they have conflicts of interest?) and reusable. [IPCC, pls take note! -hro]<br />
[...]<br />
Too often, we scientists seek patterns in data that reflect our preconceived ideas. And when we do publish the data, we too frequently publish only those that support these ideas. This cherry-picking is bad practice and should stop. [Joelle Gergis, are you listening? -hro]<br />
[...]<br />
And above all, <strong>we need scientists to accept that publicly funded research is a public resource</strong>. [emphasis added -hro]</p></blockquote>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John M</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/06/21/royal-society-report-on-data-sharing/#comment-339867</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John M]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2012 22:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16333#comment-339867</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Boulton&#039;s got a column in a similar vein in today&#039;s &lt;i&gt;Nature&lt;/i&gt;

http://www.nature.com/news/open-your-minds-and-share-your-results-1.10895

No mention of &quot;citizen scientists&quot;, but he does specifically refer to Climategate, and expressly recognizes it as an important event:

&lt;blockquote&gt;We also need to be open towards fellow citizens. The massive impact of science on our collective and individual lives has decreased the willingness of many to accept the pronouncements of scientists unless they can verify the strength of the underlying evidence for themselves. The furore surrounding &#039;Climategate&#039; — rooted in the resistance of climate scientists to accede to requests from members of the public for data underlying some of the claims of climate science — was in part a motivation for the Royal Society&#039;s current report. It is vital that science is not seen to hide behind closed laboratory doors, but engages seriously with the public.&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boulton&#8217;s got a column in a similar vein in today&#8217;s <i>Nature</i></p>
<p><a href="http://www.nature.com/news/open-your-minds-and-share-your-results-1.10895" rel="nofollow">http://www.nature.com/news/open-your-minds-and-share-your-results-1.10895</a></p>
<p>No mention of &#8220;citizen scientists&#8221;, but he does specifically refer to Climategate, and expressly recognizes it as an important event:</p>
<blockquote><p>We also need to be open towards fellow citizens. The massive impact of science on our collective and individual lives has decreased the willingness of many to accept the pronouncements of scientists unless they can verify the strength of the underlying evidence for themselves. The furore surrounding &#8216;Climategate&#8217; — rooted in the resistance of climate scientists to accede to requests from members of the public for data underlying some of the claims of climate science — was in part a motivation for the Royal Society&#8217;s current report. It is vital that science is not seen to hide behind closed laboratory doors, but engages seriously with the public.</p></blockquote>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Philip Lee</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/06/21/royal-society-report-on-data-sharing/#comment-339831</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Philip Lee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2012 17:28:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16333#comment-339831</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Isn&#039;t the major objection to CRU and other professional &quot;climate scientists&quot; not the substance of their published claim but the lack of backing for them because the fail to share data to allow others to check their results and they respond in a political way to critical comment?  That is, isn&#039;t it that they fail to act as scientists?  

So, this discussion of &quot;citizen scientist&quot; vs. &quot;scientist&quot; seems all wrong.  Who behaves in a way supporting the scientific method is a scientist.  It might be relevant in some non-scientific discussions to use an adjective such as &quot;unpaid&quot; to describe a scientist, but for discussion of science itself such adjectives are irrelevant.

In fact the very use of such adjectives mark a discussion as non-science and likely political.  I&#039;d avoid such descriptive adjectives altogether.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t the major objection to CRU and other professional &#8220;climate scientists&#8221; not the substance of their published claim but the lack of backing for them because the fail to share data to allow others to check their results and they respond in a political way to critical comment?  That is, isn&#8217;t it that they fail to act as scientists?  </p>
<p>So, this discussion of &#8220;citizen scientist&#8221; vs. &#8220;scientist&#8221; seems all wrong.  Who behaves in a way supporting the scientific method is a scientist.  It might be relevant in some non-scientific discussions to use an adjective such as &#8220;unpaid&#8221; to describe a scientist, but for discussion of science itself such adjectives are irrelevant.</p>
<p>In fact the very use of such adjectives mark a discussion as non-science and likely political.  I&#8217;d avoid such descriptive adjectives altogether.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: fastfreddy101</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/06/21/royal-society-report-on-data-sharing/#comment-339639</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fastfreddy101]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2012 13:13:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16333#comment-339639</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Neutral Scientist? 
Impartial Scientist?
Honest Scientist?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neutral Scientist?<br />
Impartial Scientist?<br />
Honest Scientist?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: PhilH</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/06/21/royal-society-report-on-data-sharing/#comment-339634</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PhilH]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2012 12:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16333#comment-339634</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As a more appropriate description than &quot;citizen scientists,&quot; I would suggest the simple phrase, &quot;other concerned scientists.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a more appropriate description than &#8220;citizen scientists,&#8221; I would suggest the simple phrase, &#8220;other concerned scientists.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: feet2thefire</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/06/21/royal-society-report-on-data-sharing/#comment-339520</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[feet2thefire]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2012 20:07:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16333#comment-339520</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ Earle Williams Jun 25, 2012 at 12:57 PM:
&lt;blockquote&gt;I like ‘non-establishment scientist’ as an alternative to ‘citizen scientitst’. Craig Loehle makes some good points upthread about there being no qualification test when publishing in a journal. So why the distinction for the independent author? It’s because he doesn’t belong, isn’t a member of the established group.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I suggest &#039;non-credentialed scientist&#039; or &#039;non-academic.&#039;  A lay inquirer can be in agreement with the establishment, so &#039;non-establishment scientist&#039; only covers the skeptical inquirers (or alternate researchers).  There are several areas other than climate science in which non-academics are doing inquiries.

Steve Garcia]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Earle Williams Jun 25, 2012 at 12:57 PM:</p>
<blockquote><p>I like ‘non-establishment scientist’ as an alternative to ‘citizen scientitst’. Craig Loehle makes some good points upthread about there being no qualification test when publishing in a journal. So why the distinction for the independent author? It’s because he doesn’t belong, isn’t a member of the established group.</p></blockquote>
<p>I suggest &#8216;non-credentialed scientist&#8217; or &#8216;non-academic.&#8217;  A lay inquirer can be in agreement with the establishment, so &#8216;non-establishment scientist&#8217; only covers the skeptical inquirers (or alternate researchers).  There are several areas other than climate science in which non-academics are doing inquiries.</p>
<p>Steve Garcia</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: observer</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/06/21/royal-society-report-on-data-sharing/#comment-339518</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[observer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2012 20:00:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16333#comment-339518</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Another nice example of code sharing in the computer networking world:

http://www.pollere.net/CoDel.html

Key quote:
The ns-2 codel.cc reflects the code used to produce the results in the [authors&#039;] ACM Queue paper.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another nice example of code sharing in the computer networking world:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.pollere.net/CoDel.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.pollere.net/CoDel.html</a></p>
<p>Key quote:<br />
The ns-2 codel.cc reflects the code used to produce the results in the [authors'] ACM Queue paper.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: feet2thefire</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/06/21/royal-society-report-on-data-sharing/#comment-339517</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[feet2thefire]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2012 19:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16333#comment-339517</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[On the scientific aspect of the entire issue (as opposed to the political agenda and policy aspect), simply none of this would ever have happened if, from the start, the climate people had signed on real statisticians instead of doing it themselves.

It isn&#039;t like studies aren&#039;t done with specialists in various fields.

Was it - in the beginning - intentional?  The agenda was certainly there from the moment the switch was made from approaching ice age to global warming.  And probably before that; the ice age issue wasn&#039;t sexy enough or flamboyant enough.  Climate science was a backwater of science at the time.

So was it a case of them trying to draw attention to themselves?  Did they foresee the money - and careerism - it would draw?  Did Hansen and the early few have any idea of the monolith they were creating?

No, I wouldn&#039;t think so.  It is much more likely that they had grabbed a bull by the horns and did not know if it would ever take off like a rocket.  And that is probably why it didn&#039;t matter that they did the statistics themselves - who was going to really be paying attention anyway?

Then later on, the die had been cast.  Do-it-yourself statistics was the ingrained approach.

Sooner or later a Michael Mann would take it too far.  

Sooner or later a Steve M was going to inquire - and notice things.

Sooner or later they would have to circle the wagons.

Once the backwater had been given center stage &quot;sooner&quot; became now.  It is sort of amazing the feces didn&#039;t hit the fan earlier.

The hockey stick was that bridge too far.

Steve Garcia]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the scientific aspect of the entire issue (as opposed to the political agenda and policy aspect), simply none of this would ever have happened if, from the start, the climate people had signed on real statisticians instead of doing it themselves.</p>
<p>It isn&#8217;t like studies aren&#8217;t done with specialists in various fields.</p>
<p>Was it &#8211; in the beginning &#8211; intentional?  The agenda was certainly there from the moment the switch was made from approaching ice age to global warming.  And probably before that; the ice age issue wasn&#8217;t sexy enough or flamboyant enough.  Climate science was a backwater of science at the time.</p>
<p>So was it a case of them trying to draw attention to themselves?  Did they foresee the money &#8211; and careerism &#8211; it would draw?  Did Hansen and the early few have any idea of the monolith they were creating?</p>
<p>No, I wouldn&#8217;t think so.  It is much more likely that they had grabbed a bull by the horns and did not know if it would ever take off like a rocket.  And that is probably why it didn&#8217;t matter that they did the statistics themselves &#8211; who was going to really be paying attention anyway?</p>
<p>Then later on, the die had been cast.  Do-it-yourself statistics was the ingrained approach.</p>
<p>Sooner or later a Michael Mann would take it too far.  </p>
<p>Sooner or later a Steve M was going to inquire &#8211; and notice things.</p>
<p>Sooner or later they would have to circle the wagons.</p>
<p>Once the backwater had been given center stage &#8220;sooner&#8221; became now.  It is sort of amazing the feces didn&#8217;t hit the fan earlier.</p>
<p>The hockey stick was that bridge too far.</p>
<p>Steve Garcia</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Earle Williams</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/06/21/royal-society-report-on-data-sharing/#comment-339508</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Earle Williams]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2012 17:57:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16333#comment-339508</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I like &#039;non-establishment scientist&#039; as an alternative to &#039;citizen scientitst&#039;.  Craig Loehle makes some good points upthread about there being no qualification test when publishing in a journal.  So why the distinction for the independent author?  It&#039;s because he doesn&#039;t belong, isn&#039;t a member of the established group.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like &#8216;non-establishment scientist&#8217; as an alternative to &#8216;citizen scientitst&#8217;.  Craig Loehle makes some good points upthread about there being no qualification test when publishing in a journal.  So why the distinction for the independent author?  It&#8217;s because he doesn&#8217;t belong, isn&#8217;t a member of the established group.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: stan</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/06/21/royal-society-report-on-data-sharing/#comment-339507</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[stan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2012 17:55:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16333#comment-339507</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A reference to a blind squirrel seems apt, but instead let&#039;s just run with a quote from an esteemed scientist -- 
&quot;The money-quotes came late on when he talked about &quot;the Nature-Science problem&quot;.  He seemed faintly disgusted by the lengths to which some climate scientists will go to get published in Nature or Science with the attendant publicity, media appearances and so on.  He sometimes found it difficult to tell which of the Daily Mail and Nature was the peer-reviewed journal and which the tabloid.  Nonetheless, he said, his colleagues  reassure him that just because something appears in Nature doesn&#039;t necessarily mean it&#039;s wrong.&quot;

http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2012/5/4/wunsch-on-nature.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A reference to a blind squirrel seems apt, but instead let&#8217;s just run with a quote from an esteemed scientist &#8212;<br />
&#8220;The money-quotes came late on when he talked about &#8220;the Nature-Science problem&#8221;.  He seemed faintly disgusted by the lengths to which some climate scientists will go to get published in Nature or Science with the attendant publicity, media appearances and so on.  He sometimes found it difficult to tell which of the Daily Mail and Nature was the peer-reviewed journal and which the tabloid.  Nonetheless, he said, his colleagues  reassure him that just because something appears in Nature doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean it&#8217;s wrong.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2012/5/4/wunsch-on-nature.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2012/5/4/wunsch-on-nature.html</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
