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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;AGU Journals Should Ask Authors to Publish Results&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/07/14/agu-journals-should-ask-authors-to-publish-results/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
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		<title>By: Weekly Climate and Energy News Roundup &#124; Watts Up With That?</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/07/14/agu-journals-should-ask-authors-to-publish-results/#comment-343976</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Weekly Climate and Energy News Roundup &#124; Watts Up With That?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2012 23:49:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16431#comment-343976</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] http://climateaudit.org/2012/07/14/agu-journals-should-ask-authors-to-publish-results/ [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://climateaudit.org/2012/07/14/agu-journals-should-ask-authors-to-publish-results/" rel="nofollow">http://climateaudit.org/2012/07/14/agu-journals-should-ask-authors-to-publish-results/</a> [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: fastfreddy101</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/07/14/agu-journals-should-ask-authors-to-publish-results/#comment-343221</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fastfreddy101]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:49:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16431#comment-343221</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;European Commission backs calls for open access to scientific research&quot;

&lt;blockquote&gt;The European Commission, which controls one of the world&#039;s largest science budgets, has backed calls for free access to publicly funded research in a move that could force a major change in the business model for publishers such as Reed Elsevier.

&quot;Taxpayers should not have to pay twice for scientific research and they need seamless access to raw data,&quot; said Neelie Kroes, European Commission vice-president for digital agenda.

The EC saidon Tuesday that open access will be a &quot;general principle&quot; applied to grants awarded through the €80bn Horizon 2020 programme for research and innovation.

From 2014 all articles produced with funding from Horizon 2020 will have to be accessible and the goal is for 60% of European publicly funded research to be available by 2016.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

source: The Guardian

Nice, but will the data be free for open access?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;European Commission backs calls for open access to scientific research&#8221;</p>
<blockquote><p>The European Commission, which controls one of the world&#8217;s largest science budgets, has backed calls for free access to publicly funded research in a move that could force a major change in the business model for publishers such as Reed Elsevier.</p>
<p>&#8220;Taxpayers should not have to pay twice for scientific research and they need seamless access to raw data,&#8221; said Neelie Kroes, European Commission vice-president for digital agenda.</p>
<p>The EC saidon Tuesday that open access will be a &#8220;general principle&#8221; applied to grants awarded through the €80bn Horizon 2020 programme for research and innovation.</p>
<p>From 2014 all articles produced with funding from Horizon 2020 will have to be accessible and the goal is for 60% of European publicly funded research to be available by 2016.</p></blockquote>
<p>source: The Guardian</p>
<p>Nice, but will the data be free for open access?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: djbiggs</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/07/14/agu-journals-should-ask-authors-to-publish-results/#comment-343116</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[djbiggs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2012 07:59:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16431#comment-343116</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Perhaps you missed,

&quot;Such repositories are important because they contain all the experimental data that was collected during the experiment as well as its results.

It is the raw data that is as important if not more so to other researchers as the results themselves in order to make full use of the information to help their own research. It is unclear at this stage whether publishers will allow access to the raw data or impose a charge for access to this information.

&quot;The Government, despite having made a bad choice, still has an opportunity through the detailed implementation of the new structure to ensure that researchers and taxpayers do not lose out completely,&quot; Mr Friend told BBC News.&quot;    

http://www.friendofopenaccess.org.uk/index.php/current-issues  is a bit more substantive.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps you missed,</p>
<p>&#8220;Such repositories are important because they contain all the experimental data that was collected during the experiment as well as its results.</p>
<p>It is the raw data that is as important if not more so to other researchers as the results themselves in order to make full use of the information to help their own research. It is unclear at this stage whether publishers will allow access to the raw data or impose a charge for access to this information.</p>
<p>&#8220;The Government, despite having made a bad choice, still has an opportunity through the detailed implementation of the new structure to ensure that researchers and taxpayers do not lose out completely,&#8221; Mr Friend told BBC News.&#8221;    </p>
<p><a href="http://www.friendofopenaccess.org.uk/index.php/current-issues" rel="nofollow">http://www.friendofopenaccess.org.uk/index.php/current-issues</a>  is a bit more substantive.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: djbiggs</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/07/14/agu-journals-should-ask-authors-to-publish-results/#comment-342997</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[djbiggs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2012 20:36:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16431#comment-342997</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I believe the message of open archived data may be getting through, or at least 50m is getting thrown in the general direction of the problem.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18860276
&lt;strong&gt;
Steve: different issue entirely. That&#039;s about the price of academic articles. Not about data archives.

&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the message of open archived data may be getting through, or at least 50m is getting thrown in the general direction of the problem.<br />
<a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18860276" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18860276</a><br />
<strong><br />
Steve: different issue entirely. That&#8217;s about the price of academic articles. Not about data archives.</p>
<p></strong></p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Coldish</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/07/14/agu-journals-should-ask-authors-to-publish-results/#comment-342929</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Coldish]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2012 13:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16431#comment-342929</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;My exchange with O’Dowd is mentioned by Climategate correspondents&quot;.  Steve, I&#039;d like to read those emails.  Is there a reference number?  Thanks for all the sterling work.  Coldish]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;My exchange with O’Dowd is mentioned by Climategate correspondents&#8221;.  Steve, I&#8217;d like to read those emails.  Is there a reference number?  Thanks for all the sterling work.  Coldish</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Mach</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/07/14/agu-journals-should-ask-authors-to-publish-results/#comment-342812</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tony Mach]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2012 19:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16431#comment-342812</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Seth Roberts is here? Cool! If you are interested what the spawns of Gallo are up to nowadays, you should look at the joint work of Ruscetti and Mikovits – smells like HTLV-III all over.

Welcome and happy hunting here in Climate Science land!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seth Roberts is here? Cool! If you are interested what the spawns of Gallo are up to nowadays, you should look at the joint work of Ruscetti and Mikovits – smells like HTLV-III all over.</p>
<p>Welcome and happy hunting here in Climate Science land!</p>
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		<title>By: Duster</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/07/14/agu-journals-should-ask-authors-to-publish-results/#comment-342712</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Duster]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2012 00:02:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16431#comment-342712</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is a symptom of a growing legitimization of faction formation that is just as likely to bring down this civilization as it did the Byzantine Empire.  Factions (Teams) discard the &quot;civil&quot; in civilization.  In Byzantium the &quot;teams&quot; were quite literally the adherents of of chariot racing teams.  The Smithsonian site has an interesting article on this &quot;Blue versus Green&quot;.  A new dark age would certainly take care of any CO2 issues.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is a symptom of a growing legitimization of faction formation that is just as likely to bring down this civilization as it did the Byzantine Empire.  Factions (Teams) discard the &#8220;civil&#8221; in civilization.  In Byzantium the &#8220;teams&#8221; were quite literally the adherents of of chariot racing teams.  The Smithsonian site has an interesting article on this &#8220;Blue versus Green&#8221;.  A new dark age would certainly take care of any CO2 issues.</p>
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		<title>By: dearieme</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/07/14/agu-journals-should-ask-authors-to-publish-results/#comment-342690</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dearieme]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jul 2012 20:52:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16431#comment-342690</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The struggle against data denialism must continue.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The struggle against data denialism must continue.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: MarkB</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/07/14/agu-journals-should-ask-authors-to-publish-results/#comment-342667</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MarkB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jul 2012 17:50:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16431#comment-342667</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The writer actually says that the availability of results should be standard, although not required. How does that solve anything? The Usual Suspects would simply choose to not follow the standard, and there would be no recourse. 

Let&#039;s go back to first principles. Every freshman in a Science 101 lab class learns that a Methods section must include everything needed to replicate the work described. In computational and statistical research, one cannot replicate work with a different data set or different computation or analytic tools. It is literally impossible. 

Therefore, no such work passes muster for college freshmen, much less professional scientists. IN order to get on with it and keep the publication gravy train running, everyone in the fields go along with this practice, but it does not hold up under scrutiny. 

When data sets were held in lab notebooks, this could be excused on pragmatic grounds. This is obviously no longer true. In order to replicate your work, I need your data and your code. Both should be archived and available without asking. Just shining the light of day on such work would do wonders for the relevant fields, if not for the careers of the inmates.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The writer actually says that the availability of results should be standard, although not required. How does that solve anything? The Usual Suspects would simply choose to not follow the standard, and there would be no recourse. </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s go back to first principles. Every freshman in a Science 101 lab class learns that a Methods section must include everything needed to replicate the work described. In computational and statistical research, one cannot replicate work with a different data set or different computation or analytic tools. It is literally impossible. </p>
<p>Therefore, no such work passes muster for college freshmen, much less professional scientists. IN order to get on with it and keep the publication gravy train running, everyone in the fields go along with this practice, but it does not hold up under scrutiny. </p>
<p>When data sets were held in lab notebooks, this could be excused on pragmatic grounds. This is obviously no longer true. In order to replicate your work, I need your data and your code. Both should be archived and available without asking. Just shining the light of day on such work would do wonders for the relevant fields, if not for the careers of the inmates.</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Roberts</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/07/14/agu-journals-should-ask-authors-to-publish-results/#comment-342641</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Seth Roberts]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jul 2012 15:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16431#comment-342641</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Several years ago a journal (in psychology) was taking a very long time to review a paper. I wrote to the editor. No reply. I wrote to the board overseeing the editor. They took action that addressed my complaint.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Several years ago a journal (in psychology) was taking a very long time to review a paper. I wrote to the editor. No reply. I wrote to the board overseeing the editor. They took action that addressed my complaint.</p>
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