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	<title>Comments on: The Third &#8216;Skeptic&#8217;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/10/the-third-skeptic/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/10/the-third-skeptic/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 02:29:14 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Lewandowsky Timeline &#124; Geoffchambers&#039;s Blog</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/10/the-third-skeptic/#comment-407121</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lewandowsky Timeline &#124; Geoffchambers&#039;s Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Mar 2013 00:36:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16699#comment-407121</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/10/the-third-skeptic/ [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/10/the-third-skeptic/" rel="nofollow">http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/10/the-third-skeptic/</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: w.w.wygart</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/10/the-third-skeptic/#comment-351149</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[w.w.wygart]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 13:28:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Well, at least Lewandowsky is half honest when he says, &quot;the rationale behind the survey is to draw linkages between attitudes to climate science and other scientific propositions (eg HIV/AIDS)...&quot;  He states, maybe unintentionally, that the intent is, &quot;to draw linkages&quot; rather than for instance, &#039;investigate the possibility that there might be linkages...&#039;  Got to give credit where credit is due, that&#039;s pretty bold, or maybe its just his subconscious leaking through.

On the other hand Lewandosky&#039;s statement, &quot;...attitudes to... ...other scientific propositions (eg HIV/AIDS)...&quot; is well beyond obtuse and smacks of dissembling.  It, in my opinion, is a deliberate attempt to conceal the real focus of the study which is to &#039;create&#039; a linkage between climate change &#039;skepticism&#039; and belief in paranoid, pseudo-scientific conspiracy theories.  Here, Lewandowsky is trying to &#039;game&#039; Pielke the Younger - not going to work.  Exactly how stupid does Lewandowsky think Dr. Pielke is?

And, he wonders why nobody on the skeptic side, gets associated with the skeptic side or wishes to maintain their professional reputation wants to play with him.

It does have to hurt though, that so many of the bloggers he attempted to hustle into his survey didn&#039;t even notice him.

An interesting follow-up survey to ask respondents might be [IF you could get an honest answer]:

When you took the survey did you believe that the survey was a valid and scientific attempt to study the issue?
a] Yes
b] No
c] if b, did you care?

~W^3]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, at least Lewandowsky is half honest when he says, &#8220;the rationale behind the survey is to draw linkages between attitudes to climate science and other scientific propositions (eg HIV/AIDS)&#8230;&#8221;  He states, maybe unintentionally, that the intent is, &#8220;to draw linkages&#8221; rather than for instance, &#8216;investigate the possibility that there might be linkages&#8230;&#8217;  Got to give credit where credit is due, that&#8217;s pretty bold, or maybe its just his subconscious leaking through.</p>
<p>On the other hand Lewandosky&#8217;s statement, &#8220;&#8230;attitudes to&#8230; &#8230;other scientific propositions (eg HIV/AIDS)&#8230;&#8221; is well beyond obtuse and smacks of dissembling.  It, in my opinion, is a deliberate attempt to conceal the real focus of the study which is to &#8216;create&#8217; a linkage between climate change &#8216;skepticism&#8217; and belief in paranoid, pseudo-scientific conspiracy theories.  Here, Lewandowsky is trying to &#8216;game&#8217; Pielke the Younger &#8211; not going to work.  Exactly how stupid does Lewandowsky think Dr. Pielke is?</p>
<p>And, he wonders why nobody on the skeptic side, gets associated with the skeptic side or wishes to maintain their professional reputation wants to play with him.</p>
<p>It does have to hurt though, that so many of the bloggers he attempted to hustle into his survey didn&#8217;t even notice him.</p>
<p>An interesting follow-up survey to ask respondents might be [IF you could get an honest answer]:</p>
<p>When you took the survey did you believe that the survey was a valid and scientific attempt to study the issue?<br />
a] Yes<br />
b] No<br />
c] if b, did you care?</p>
<p>~W^3</p>
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		<title>By: michael hart</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/10/the-third-skeptic/#comment-350765</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[michael hart]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2012 18:50:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16699#comment-350765</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Or Douglas Adams. &quot;Don&#039;t you try to out-weird me. I get stranger things than you free with my breakfast cereal&quot;-Zaphod Beeblebrox]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or Douglas Adams. &#8220;Don&#8217;t you try to out-weird me. I get stranger things than you free with my breakfast cereal&#8221;-Zaphod Beeblebrox</p>
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		<title>By: al</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/10/the-third-skeptic/#comment-350598</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[al]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2012 11:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16699#comment-350598</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[got to feel sorry for them really - obviously a massively underfunded lab where people doing internet based research are having to share desktop computers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>got to feel sorry for them really &#8211; obviously a massively underfunded lab where people doing internet based research are having to share desktop computers.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Mangan</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/10/the-third-skeptic/#comment-350588</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Mangan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2012 11:33:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16699#comment-350588</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Once again, it&#039;s not what they do, it&#039;s that they can get away with it. This story has penetrated the outer edges of main stream media, being reported in the Huffington Post, the Blaze, and on MSNBC&#039;s website. Mann, Gleick, and Lewandowsky can act with impunity because they are given the mantle of credibility by the media and academia. It&#039;s maddening.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once again, it&#8217;s not what they do, it&#8217;s that they can get away with it. This story has penetrated the outer edges of main stream media, being reported in the Huffington Post, the Blaze, and on MSNBC&#8217;s website. Mann, Gleick, and Lewandowsky can act with impunity because they are given the mantle of credibility by the media and academia. It&#8217;s maddening.</p>
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		<title>By: tlitb1</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/10/the-third-skeptic/#comment-350576</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tlitb1]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16699#comment-350576</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-350553&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;A.Scott (Sep 11 04:45)&lt;/a&gt;, 

You might want to check out this blog article :

http://www.ambitgambit.com/2012/09/06/fish-rot-from-the-head-part-1/#comments

The article has screen shots of the full survey he took. His survey started the same as first questions as HKMKNF_991e2415 (so it probably was that). 

Questions 1-5 from KMKNI_9a13984, &quot;Satisfaction with life scale&quot; SWLS questions, appear in the same order as questions 28-32 on his survey on their own page. I would hazard a guess the survey variations may just depend on the positioning of these SWLS questions as L makes mention of them as being some sort of benchmark in his paper. 

You can find the original SWLS ED DIENER, ROBERT A. EMMONS, RANDY J. LAR.SEM, and SHARON GRIFFIN paper if you Google.

I can&#039;t see anything about using it for counterbalancing it seems a pretty arbitrary way to do it, but I&#039;m just guessing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-350553" rel="nofollow">A.Scott (Sep 11 04:45)</a>, </p>
<p>You might want to check out this blog article :</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ambitgambit.com/2012/09/06/fish-rot-from-the-head-part-1/#comments" rel="nofollow">http://www.ambitgambit.com/2012/09/06/fish-rot-from-the-head-part-1/#comments</a></p>
<p>The article has screen shots of the full survey he took. His survey started the same as first questions as HKMKNF_991e2415 (so it probably was that). </p>
<p>Questions 1-5 from KMKNI_9a13984, &#8220;Satisfaction with life scale&#8221; SWLS questions, appear in the same order as questions 28-32 on his survey on their own page. I would hazard a guess the survey variations may just depend on the positioning of these SWLS questions as L makes mention of them as being some sort of benchmark in his paper. </p>
<p>You can find the original SWLS ED DIENER, ROBERT A. EMMONS, RANDY J. LAR.SEM, and SHARON GRIFFIN paper if you Google.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t see anything about using it for counterbalancing it seems a pretty arbitrary way to do it, but I&#8217;m just guessing.</p>
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		<title>By: A.Scott</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/10/the-third-skeptic/#comment-350553</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A.Scott]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2012 09:45:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16699#comment-350553</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-350238&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;thomaswfuller2 (Sep 10 16:01)&lt;/a&gt;, 

Thomas 

Here are the first page questions from at least 2 of the surveys (h/t tlitb Bishop Hill): 

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://web.archive.org/web/20100928145229/http://www.kwiksurveys.com/online-survey.php?surveyID=HKMKNI_9a13984&amp;UID=3313891469&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;surveyID=HKMKNI_9a13984&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;

* 1. In most ways my life is close to my ideal
 
* 2. The conditions of my life are excellent

* 3. I am satisfied with my life
 
* 4. So far I have gotten the important things I want in life 

* 5. If I could live my life over, I would change almost nothing

&lt;/blockquote&gt;

and:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://web.archive.org/web/20100903013604/http://www.kwiksurveys.com/online-survey.php?surveyID=HKMKNF_991e2415&amp;UID=2378302794&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;surveyID=HKMKNF_991e2415&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;

* 1. An economic system based on free markets unrestrained by government interference automatically works best to meet human needs.
 
* 2. I support the free-market system, but not at the expense of the environmental quality
 
* 3. The free-market system may be efficient for resource allocation, but it is limited in its capacity to promote social justice 

* 4. The preservation of the free market system is more important than localized environmental concerns  

* 5. Free and unregulated markets pose important threats to sustainable development Strongly Agree
 
* 6. The free-market system is likely to promote unsustainable consumption

&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This pretty clearly shows us there was no randomization or worries about order effect. They kept questions grouped similarly and simply moved them around in blocks. 

There were exactly 6 questions in the &quot;free market&quot; group and only 5 questions in &quot;am I happy&quot; group ... and room for only 6 or so questions on the first page. The lack of a 6th question on the one page pretty much proves the questions were not truly randomized but were kept in their order with their orig groups. Basically no value I can see to this - no attempt to address order effect.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-350238" rel="nofollow">thomaswfuller2 (Sep 10 16:01)</a>, </p>
<p>Thomas </p>
<p>Here are the first page questions from at least 2 of the surveys (h/t tlitb Bishop Hill): </p>
<blockquote><p><strong><a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20100928145229/http://www.kwiksurveys.com/online-survey.php?surveyID=HKMKNI_9a13984&amp;UID=3313891469" rel="nofollow">surveyID=HKMKNI_9a13984</a></strong></p>
<p>* 1. In most ways my life is close to my ideal</p>
<p>* 2. The conditions of my life are excellent</p>
<p>* 3. I am satisfied with my life</p>
<p>* 4. So far I have gotten the important things I want in life </p>
<p>* 5. If I could live my life over, I would change almost nothing</p>
</blockquote>
<p>and:</p>
<blockquote><p><strong><a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20100903013604/http://www.kwiksurveys.com/online-survey.php?surveyID=HKMKNF_991e2415&amp;UID=2378302794" rel="nofollow">surveyID=HKMKNF_991e2415</a></strong></p>
<p>* 1. An economic system based on free markets unrestrained by government interference automatically works best to meet human needs.</p>
<p>* 2. I support the free-market system, but not at the expense of the environmental quality</p>
<p>* 3. The free-market system may be efficient for resource allocation, but it is limited in its capacity to promote social justice </p>
<p>* 4. The preservation of the free market system is more important than localized environmental concerns  </p>
<p>* 5. Free and unregulated markets pose important threats to sustainable development Strongly Agree</p>
<p>* 6. The free-market system is likely to promote unsustainable consumption</p>
</blockquote>
<p>This pretty clearly shows us there was no randomization or worries about order effect. They kept questions grouped similarly and simply moved them around in blocks. </p>
<p>There were exactly 6 questions in the &#8220;free market&#8221; group and only 5 questions in &#8220;am I happy&#8221; group &#8230; and room for only 6 or so questions on the first page. The lack of a 6th question on the one page pretty much proves the questions were not truly randomized but were kept in their order with their orig groups. Basically no value I can see to this &#8211; no attempt to address order effect.</p>
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		<title>By: geronimo</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/10/the-third-skeptic/#comment-350536</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[geronimo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2012 09:11:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16699#comment-350536</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pea-thimble time, note he doesn&#039;t give the actual date the surveys were sent, just the year. Were the Sceptic blogs sent the surveys later than the alarmist blogs to provide a cover for the fact that he only ever intended to use alarmist blogs?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pea-thimble time, note he doesn&#8217;t give the actual date the surveys were sent, just the year. Were the Sceptic blogs sent the surveys later than the alarmist blogs to provide a cover for the fact that he only ever intended to use alarmist blogs?</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Drake</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/10/the-third-skeptic/#comment-350535</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Drake]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2012 09:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16699#comment-350535</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Roger, you&#039;re right to want to know about Steve&#039;s London talk. It seemed to me, as a neophyte on WG2, like a tour de force on climate and extreme events. If you had been sitting next to me I&#039;m sure I would have learned a great deal more.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger, you&#8217;re right to want to know about Steve&#8217;s London talk. It seemed to me, as a neophyte on WG2, like a tour de force on climate and extreme events. If you had been sitting next to me I&#8217;m sure I would have learned a great deal more.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Melville</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/10/the-third-skeptic/#comment-350534</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robin Melville]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2012 08:55:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16699#comment-350534</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That just about sums it up. Thanks &lt;b&gt;johanna&lt;/b&gt;. I&#039;d also add that there&#039;s no indication in his methodology section about how the quaire was validated, whether it provided test/retest and internal consistency, or how you can apply a scalar response to complex non-linear questions. In my view it falls into the category of a tabloid newspaper &quot;survey&quot; e.g. &quot;Should aggressive beggars be repatriated: &#039;Yes&#039;/&#039;No&#039;&quot;.

My opinion of the quality of Psychology journals just dropped several notches.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That just about sums it up. Thanks <b>johanna</b>. I&#8217;d also add that there&#8217;s no indication in his methodology section about how the quaire was validated, whether it provided test/retest and internal consistency, or how you can apply a scalar response to complex non-linear questions. In my view it falls into the category of a tabloid newspaper &#8220;survey&#8221; e.g. &#8220;Should aggressive beggars be repatriated: &#8216;Yes&#8217;/'No&#8217;&#8221;.</p>
<p>My opinion of the quality of Psychology journals just dropped several notches.</p>
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