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	<title>Comments on: More Deception in the Lewandowsky Data</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/23/more-deception-in-the-lewandowsky-data/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/23/more-deception-in-the-lewandowsky-data/</link>
	<description>by Steve McIntyre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:52:05 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Lewandowsky Timeline &#124; Geoffchambers&#039;s Blog</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/23/more-deception-in-the-lewandowsky-data/#comment-407132</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lewandowsky Timeline &#124; Geoffchambers&#039;s Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Mar 2013 00:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16864#comment-407132</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/23/more-deception-in-the-lewandowsky-data/ [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/23/more-deception-in-the-lewandowsky-data/" rel="nofollow">http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/23/more-deception-in-the-lewandowsky-data/</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: University of Western Australia &#8230; challenged &#124; pindanpost</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/23/more-deception-in-the-lewandowsky-data/#comment-360646</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[University of Western Australia &#8230; challenged &#124; pindanpost]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2012 00:31:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16864#comment-360646</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] has not posted anything on his blog. Steve McIntyre has posted two further articles (here and here). Has someone had a quiet word to Lewandowsky? Plus, we note, Psychological Science must be due to [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] has not posted anything on his blog. Steve McIntyre has posted two further articles (here and here). Has someone had a quiet word to Lewandowsky? Plus, we note, Psychological Science must be due to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Eddy</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/23/more-deception-in-the-lewandowsky-data/#comment-359658</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eddy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2012 13:52:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16864#comment-359658</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I love this quote from the Nature story:

[quote]In a survey of more than 2,000 psychologists, Leslie John, a consumer psychologist from Harvard Business School in Boston, Massachusetts, showed that more than 50% had waited to decide whether to collect more data until they had checked the significance of their results, thereby allowing them to hold out until positive results materialize. More than 40% had selectively reported studies that “worked”8. On average, most respondents felt that these practices were defensible. “Many people continue to use these approaches because that is how they were taught,” says Brent Roberts, a psychologist at the University of Illinois at Urbana–Champaign. [/quote]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love this quote from the Nature story:</p>
<p>[quote]In a survey of more than 2,000 psychologists, Leslie John, a consumer psychologist from Harvard Business School in Boston, Massachusetts, showed that more than 50% had waited to decide whether to collect more data until they had checked the significance of their results, thereby allowing them to hold out until positive results materialize. More than 40% had selectively reported studies that “worked”8. On average, most respondents felt that these practices were defensible. “Many people continue to use these approaches because that is how they were taught,” says Brent Roberts, a psychologist at the University of Illinois at Urbana–Champaign. [/quote]</p>
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		<title>By: Hoi Polloi</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/23/more-deception-in-the-lewandowsky-data/#comment-359635</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hoi Polloi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2012 10:45:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16864#comment-359635</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Email from Nobel laureate Daniel Kahneman to his collegue psychologists:

http://www.nature.com/polopoly_fs/7.6716.1349271308!/suppinfoFile/Kahneman%20Letter.pdf

http://www.nature.com/news/nobel-laureate-challenges-psychologists-to-clean-up-their-act-1.11535

Replication, say what?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Email from Nobel laureate Daniel Kahneman to his collegue psychologists:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nature.com/polopoly_fs/7.6716.1349271308!/suppinfoFile/Kahneman%20Letter.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.nature.com/polopoly_fs/7.6716.1349271308!/suppinfoFile/Kahneman%20Letter.pdf</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.nature.com/news/nobel-laureate-challenges-psychologists-to-clean-up-their-act-1.11535" rel="nofollow">http://www.nature.com/news/nobel-laureate-challenges-psychologists-to-clean-up-their-act-1.11535</a></p>
<p>Replication, say what?</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/23/more-deception-in-the-lewandowsky-data/#comment-359457</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 17:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16864#comment-359457</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[snip

&quot;The most important issue is whether the Lewandowsky survey was contaminated by fraudulent responses by anti-skeptics. It was.&quot;

Yeah, but you haven&#039;t shown that. You&#039;ve simply asserted it. You have yet to prove it. 

snip

&lt;strong&gt;Steve: untrue personal accusations snipped.&lt;/strong&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;There is convincing evidence of fraudulent responses, as I&#039;ve asserted. As Lewandowsky observed in the case of Bray-von Storch, an author seeking to publish results from an online survey has to show data integrity.  The onus is on Lewandowsky to demonstrate data integrity - he hasn&#039;t done so.  I made the very moderate suggestion that Lewandowsky request re-review of this article, asking the reviewers to pay attention to the possibility of fake responses.  You should support that request.&lt;/strong&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;Such a reviewer, if diligent, would need to examine IP addresses, the unreported duplicate responses, among other things. Even then, I don&#039;t believe that an objective reviewer could arrive at the conclusion that Lewandowsky had assured that his results were not contaminated by fraudulent data and should therefore recommend rejection of the article.&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>snip</p>
<p>&#8220;The most important issue is whether the Lewandowsky survey was contaminated by fraudulent responses by anti-skeptics. It was.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeah, but you haven&#8217;t shown that. You&#8217;ve simply asserted it. You have yet to prove it. </p>
<p>snip</p>
<p><strong>Steve: untrue personal accusations snipped.</strong></p>
<p><strong>There is convincing evidence of fraudulent responses, as I&#8217;ve asserted. As Lewandowsky observed in the case of Bray-von Storch, an author seeking to publish results from an online survey has to show data integrity.  The onus is on Lewandowsky to demonstrate data integrity &#8211; he hasn&#8217;t done so.  I made the very moderate suggestion that Lewandowsky request re-review of this article, asking the reviewers to pay attention to the possibility of fake responses.  You should support that request.</strong></p>
<p><strong>Such a reviewer, if diligent, would need to examine IP addresses, the unreported duplicate responses, among other things. Even then, I don&#8217;t believe that an objective reviewer could arrive at the conclusion that Lewandowsky had assured that his results were not contaminated by fraudulent data and should therefore recommend rejection of the article.</strong></p>
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		<title>By: faustusnotes</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/23/more-deception-in-the-lewandowsky-data/#comment-359366</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[faustusnotes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 08:44:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16864#comment-359366</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steve, I would now like to put a little time into repeating the analysis I conducted using the data A. Scott collected. Can you tell me where to find it, or could A. Scott?
&lt;strong&gt;
Steve: I&#039;m taking a look at it and plan to report on it at some point. I&#039;ve asked A. Scott to hold off distribution until then. 
 &lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, I would now like to put a little time into repeating the analysis I conducted using the data A. Scott collected. Can you tell me where to find it, or could A. Scott?<br />
<strong><br />
Steve: I&#8217;m taking a look at it and plan to report on it at some point. I&#8217;ve asked A. Scott to hold off distribution until then.<br />
 </strong></p>
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		<title>By: Kenneth Fritsch</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/23/more-deception-in-the-lewandowsky-data/#comment-359267</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kenneth Fritsch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2012 22:15:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16864#comment-359267</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I suspect Tom Curtis&#039; seemingly bipartisan criticism of Lewandowsky&#039;s polling analysis is more damage control than an totally objective criticism. I also think that he can project that image because some skeptics and those suspected of being skeptics have given the analysis some credence by analyzing the statistics used.  What Lewandowsky has done is what anyone could easily do legitimately or otherwise in such polls and that is obtain responses from the less reasonable portion of the  group that identifies with a position that is antithetic to one&#039;s own position.  The implied conclusion that that position is somehow weaken by the responses of the less reasonable portion of people who claim to have that position is a political one and certainly not scientific.  In order for the Lewandowsky analysis to have any of its claimed importance, vis a vis a reasonable view of AGW and related policies, it would have to conjecture that the science and policy formation are the result of  consensus thinking and that would include the uninformed and less reasonable part of any side of that consensus.

The Lewandowsky analysis is nothing more than a transparent attempt to affect the political stage of the AGW debate.   I would think that Tom Curtis realizes what Lewandowsky is attempting here and if he were truly objective in these matters would be discussing the essence of the analysis and not the peripheral issues of who is playing nice and who is not.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect Tom Curtis&#8217; seemingly bipartisan criticism of Lewandowsky&#8217;s polling analysis is more damage control than an totally objective criticism. I also think that he can project that image because some skeptics and those suspected of being skeptics have given the analysis some credence by analyzing the statistics used.  What Lewandowsky has done is what anyone could easily do legitimately or otherwise in such polls and that is obtain responses from the less reasonable portion of the  group that identifies with a position that is antithetic to one&#8217;s own position.  The implied conclusion that that position is somehow weaken by the responses of the less reasonable portion of people who claim to have that position is a political one and certainly not scientific.  In order for the Lewandowsky analysis to have any of its claimed importance, vis a vis a reasonable view of AGW and related policies, it would have to conjecture that the science and policy formation are the result of  consensus thinking and that would include the uninformed and less reasonable part of any side of that consensus.</p>
<p>The Lewandowsky analysis is nothing more than a transparent attempt to affect the political stage of the AGW debate.   I would think that Tom Curtis realizes what Lewandowsky is attempting here and if he were truly objective in these matters would be discussing the essence of the analysis and not the peripheral issues of who is playing nice and who is not.</p>
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		<title>By: eric1skeptic</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/23/more-deception-in-the-lewandowsky-data/#comment-358912</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[eric1skeptic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2012 12:15:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16864#comment-358912</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;By defending bilge like Lewandowsky, you end up losing credibility.&quot;

and from above:

&quot;Lewandowsky could have easily mitigated the problem if he had followed my original suggestion that he ask the journal to re-review the article with a particular eye on the problem of fraudulent responses. You should have encouraged him to do so as well. Shame on both of you.&quot;

I think those are unfair comments.  Tom strongly critique the survey on those grounds when it came out.  He did that on his home turf at SkepSci starting here: http://www.skepticalscience.com/news.php?n=1540#84394 and was attacked by Michael Sweet and others.  After that he disappeared (nb: I am not a conspiracy theorist and do not believe Tom&#039;s disappearance is evidence of any kind of conspiracy).

I believe (or speculate) that given Tom&#039;s demonstrated determination to understand and defend science from the fundamentals of physics to softer economic sciences that he is probably discussing the survey and analysis in one on one in emails with someone or some people and will come to a supportable conclusion in time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;By defending bilge like Lewandowsky, you end up losing credibility.&#8221;</p>
<p>and from above:</p>
<p>&#8220;Lewandowsky could have easily mitigated the problem if he had followed my original suggestion that he ask the journal to re-review the article with a particular eye on the problem of fraudulent responses. You should have encouraged him to do so as well. Shame on both of you.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think those are unfair comments.  Tom strongly critique the survey on those grounds when it came out.  He did that on his home turf at SkepSci starting here: <a href="http://www.skepticalscience.com/news.php?n=1540#84394" rel="nofollow">http://www.skepticalscience.com/news.php?n=1540#84394</a> and was attacked by Michael Sweet and others.  After that he disappeared (nb: I am not a conspiracy theorist and do not believe Tom&#8217;s disappearance is evidence of any kind of conspiracy).</p>
<p>I believe (or speculate) that given Tom&#8217;s demonstrated determination to understand and defend science from the fundamentals of physics to softer economic sciences that he is probably discussing the survey and analysis in one on one in emails with someone or some people and will come to a supportable conclusion in time.</p>
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		<title>By: A.Scott</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/23/more-deception-in-the-lewandowsky-data/#comment-358862</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A.Scott]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2012 06:54:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16864#comment-358862</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-358828&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Eli Rabett (Sep 30 21:53)&lt;/a&gt;, 

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/rabett.blogspot.com

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/skepticalscience.com

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/realclimate.org

vs.

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/climateaudit.org

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/wattsupwiththat.com]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: <a href="#comment-358828" rel="nofollow">Eli Rabett (Sep 30 21:53)</a>, </p>
<p><a href="http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/rabett.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/rabett.blogspot.com</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/skepticalscience.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/skepticalscience.com</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/realclimate.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/realclimate.org</a></p>
<p>vs.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/climateaudit.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/climateaudit.org</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/wattsupwiththat.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/wattsupwiththat.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Weekly Climate and Energy News Roundup &#124; Watts Up With That?</title>
		<link>http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/23/more-deception-in-the-lewandowsky-data/#comment-358849</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Weekly Climate and Energy News Roundup &#124; Watts Up With That?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2012 04:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateaudit.org/?p=16864#comment-358849</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/23/more-deception-in-the-lewandowsky-data/#more-16864 [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/23/more-deception-in-the-lewandowsky-data/#more-16864" rel="nofollow">http://climateaudit.org/2012/09/23/more-deception-in-the-lewandowsky-data/#more-16864</a> [...]</p>
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