No Data For Some NASA Stations

I’ve been parsing through the NASA data set in order to evaluate the prevalence of NASA using obsolete data versions e.g. a Rurrenabaque version ending in 1989 when data is available to 2008).

As I was doing so, I noticed that a surprising number (97) of NASA stations included in their inventory (http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/station_data/v2.temperature.inv.txt) appear to contain no information whatever in the actual NASA data set, even though some of these stations have easily available information. One notices the absence when you try to make inventories, which is how I happened to notice their absence. The absence of data from these stations won’t “matter” for any ultimate calculations, but it reflects poorly on the craftsmanship.

Here is a list of 97 stations identified by my algorithm as not having any dset=1 data. I’ve spot checked about 10 sites at the GISS website and verified the absence for these 10 sites. It’s possible that I’ve misallocated a few, but, even if I have, the issue is why NASA doesn’t have the data sets.

Some surprising series said to have been used, but not present in the data set, are Bern (Switzerland), a number of German sites (Braunschweig, Bremen etc.), Lund (Sweden). NASA has thanked regular CA reader Hans Erren here for drawing one data set to their attention. Perhaps other CA readers could communicate with NASA directly and help them locate temperature data for Bern, Switzerland (where WMO offices are located) and the other tricky spots mentioned in the list. OK, I’ve started with Bern:

Memo to: Reto Ruedy and James Hansen

Monthly temperature data for Bern, Switzerland is at http://www.meteoswiss.admin.ch/web/de/klima/klimaentwicklung/homogene_reihen.Par.0016.DownloadFile.ext.tmp/bern.txt

row id site
14 10160457000 MOSTAGANEM VI
203 11562464001 HURGHADA
401 13465201000 LAGOS/IKEJA
403 13465236000 WARRI
404 13465243000 LOKOJA
416 13761641001 GOREE SENEGAL
884 20554945001 JUXIAN
1199 20743333000 PORT BLAIR
1352 21047696001 YOKOSUKA
1567 21941560000 PARACHINAR
1748 22227995000 SAMARA (BEZEN
1749 22228028001 USSOLJE USSR
1750 22228044001 BOGOSLOWSK USSR
1754 22228240000 NIZHNYJ TAGIL
1761 22228630000 ZLATOUST
2048 30382400000 FERNANDO DE N
2270 31480444000 CIUDAD BOLIVA
2692 40371730004 RUEL,ON
3009 40371913001 CHURCHILL FACTORY
3224 41476220001 CIUDAD GUERRERO, CHIHUAHUA
3235 41476258002 QUIRIEGO, SONORA
3248 41476373000 TEPEHUANES,DG
3314 41476695001 CHAMPOTON, CAMPECHE
3327 41476775003 CANTON, OAXACA
4196 42572491003 HOLLISTER USA
5323 44078526001 ANNAS HOPE, ST. CROIX VIRG
5690 50194788000 KEMPSEY
6172 60311020001 HOHENFURTH AUSTRIA
6182 60311320001 WILTEN AUSTRIA
6184 60437851000 BAKU (DENDROP
6228 61111438001 SCHOSSL CZECH
6230 61111502001 TETSCHEN CZECH
6232 61111518001 SMETSCHNA CZECH
6234 61111643001 NEURODE CZECH
6235 61111643002 HOHENELB CZECH
6236 61111659001 DEUTSCHBROD CZECH
6237 61111679001 LANDSKRON CZECH
6239 61111735001 LEOBSCHUTZ CZECH
6252 61326038001 BALTISCHPORT USSR
6254 61326231001 DORPAT USSR
6255 61326233001 FELLIN USSR
6258 61402844001 TORNEO FINLAND
6261 61402874001 CARLO FINLAND
6265 61402912001 WORO FINLAND
6279 61507055001 MONTDIDIER FRANCE
6281 61507090000 METZ/FRESCATY
6288 61507169001 CHALONS FRANCE
6299 61507460000 CLERMONT-FERR
6301 61507471001 LE PUY FRANCE
6303 61507491001 SAINT BERNHARD FRANCE
6322 61710091001 PUTBUS E.GERMANY
6325 61710152001 EUTIN W.GERMANY
6326 61710156000 LUEBECK-BLANK
6328 61710170001 ROSTOCK E.GERMANY
6330 61710180001 SYLT E.GERMANY
6331 61710181001 STRALSUND E.GERMANY
6334 61710224000 BREMEN
6335 61710249001 LUNEBERG W.GERMANY
6337 61710315001 MUNSTER W.GERMANY
6340 61710348000 BRAUNSCHWEIG
6346 61710396001 FRANKFURT AMODER E.GERMANY
6348 61710413001 BOCHUM W.GERMANY
6349 61710425001 ARNSBERG W.GERMANY
6351 61710444000 GOETTINGEN
6353 61710453001 KLAUSTHAL W.GERMANY
6355 61710466001 HALLE E.GERMANY
6356 61710466002 KOTHEN E.GERMANY
6359 61710476001 TORGAU E.GERMANY
6363 61710513001 KOLN W.GERMANY
6364 61710515001 KOBLENZ W.GERMANY
6368 61710555001 ARNSTADT E.GERMANY
6390 61710776000 REGENSBURG
6392 61710838001 AUGSBURG W.GERMANY
6454 62316022001 TRENTO ITALY
6466 62316095000 PADOVA
6532 62316410002 PALERMO ITALY
6562 62626238001 IDWEN USSR
6565 62626425001 MITAU USSR
6583 63306380000 MAASTRICHT AP
6591 63401052001 HAMMERFEST NORWAY
6638 63512280001 ARYS POLAND
6662 63512520001 NYSA POLAND
6708 63715235001 STANISLAV RUMANIA
6731 63826063001 KRONSTADT USSR
6746 63827453001 BALACHNA USSR
6763 63834560001 SSAREPTA USSR
6773 63834949000 STAVROPOL’
6857 64502456001 KREUZBURG SWEDEN
6866 64502627001 LUND SWEDEN
6868 64606630001 BERN SWITZERLAN
7161 65033945001 SSEVASTOPOL USSR
7163 65033966001 ENISSALA USSR
7168 65034523001 LUGAN USSR
7271 70089060000 Primavera
7313 70089612000 Casey_New_Airstrip
7333 70089820800 Dome_F
7336 70089833900 D_17

58 Comments

  1. jae
    Posted Mar 4, 2008 at 10:14 AM | Permalink

    Perhaps other CA readers could communicate with NASA directly and help them locate temperature data for Bern, Switzerland (where WMO offices are located) and the other tricky spots mentioned in the above list.

    This is funny, LOL.

  2. Gary Gulrud
    Posted Mar 4, 2008 at 12:08 PM | Permalink

    I’m shocked, you obtained a reponse for you labors in my lifetime, I was wrong to doubt.

  3. Barclay E. MacDonald
    Posted Mar 4, 2008 at 2:43 PM | Permalink

    I note that many of these are non-U.S. stations. (All except Hollister?) If a large percentage of non-U.S. stations have no data, how would this relate to the previous claim that errors in U.S. ground-station data are really inconsequential because the U.S. is geographically such a small percentage of the World? Is the ROW becoming evenless represented than it has appeared? Poor Hollister!

  4. Timo
    Posted Mar 4, 2008 at 2:45 PM | Permalink

    6583 63306380000 MAASTRICHT AP is most probably located in the Netherlands. Maastricht is place in the southern part of the Netherlands, well-known for its Carnaval and special pies. “AP” is probably an abbreviation for Airport. The station is namely located at the airport of Maastricht. On the website of the KNMI the station is named “Station 380 Maastricht (Beek)”.

    http://www.knmi.nl/klimatologie/daggegevens/download.cgi?language=eng

    The next link provides more detailed information about the site.

    http://www.knmi.nl/klimatologie/metadata/maastricht_eng.html

    It is possible that they don’t use information from this station anymore, because another station (De Bilt – 63306260000 DE BILT) is given preference. In general, De Bilt is a central point in the Netherlands for weather forecast and other climate measurements. (Crow-fly) distance De Bilt and Maastricht approx. 150 km.

  5. Posted Mar 4, 2008 at 3:00 PM | Permalink

    That’s right, it’s Maastricht-Aachen Airport. EHBK

    http://en.allmetsat.com/metar-taf/netherlands-belgium-luxembourg.php?icao=EHBK

  6. Timo
    Posted Mar 4, 2008 at 3:02 PM | Permalink

    Re 4: I forwarded the information by e-mail to Reto Ruedy tonight.

  7. henry
    Posted Mar 4, 2008 at 3:10 PM | Permalink

    From quick looks, it appears the last 4 are Antarctic stations…

    7271 70089060000 Primavera (not found)

    7313 70089612000 Casey_New_Airstrip (aus) http://www.antarcticconnection.com/antarctic/stations/casey.shtml

    7333 70089820800 Dome_F

    http://ice.ssec.wisc.edu/aws/domefmain.html

    1997 was the last year of this site’s operation.

    7336 70089833900 D_17 (not found)

    Still looking…

  8. steven mosher
    Posted Mar 4, 2008 at 3:12 PM | Permalink

    Ha, can you imagine a NASA readme with a list of CA folks who helped them find data.
    PDF. pretty damn funny

  9. henry
    Posted Mar 4, 2008 at 3:20 PM | Permalink

    More information for Casey New Airstrip, AWS (automated weather system), data current to Mar 08.

    http://data.aad.gov.au/aadc/aws/

  10. Posted Mar 4, 2008 at 3:21 PM | Permalink

    German weatherservice online monthly data starting 1991 for:
    10015 Helgoland
    10020 List auf Sylt
    10035 Schleswig
    10055 Westermakelsdorf
    10147 Hamburg-Fuhlsbüttel
    10162 Schwerin
    10170 Rostock-Warnemünde
    10184 Greifswald
    10200 Emden-Flugplatz
    10224 Bremen
    10270 Neuruppin
    10315 Münster/Osnabrück
    10338 Hannover-Langenhagen
    10361 Magdeburg
    10379 Potsdam
    10384 Berlin-Tempelhof
    10393 Lindenberg
    10400 Düsseldorf
    10427 Kahler Asten
    10439 Fritzlar
    10469 Leipzig-Schkeudiz
    10488 Dresden-Klotzsche
    10499 Görlitz
    10501 Aachen
    10506 Nürburg-Barweiler
    10548 Meiningen
    10554 Erfurt-Bindersleben
    10578 Fichtelberg
    10609 Trier-Petrisberg
    10637 Frankfurt/Main Flughaf
    10655 Würzburg
    10675 Bamberg
    10685 Hof
    10708 Saarbrücken/Ensheim
    10727 Karlsruhe
    10738 Stuttgart/Echterdingen
    10763 Nürnberg
    10788 Straubing
    10852 Augsburg
    10870 München/Flughafen
    10929 Konstanz
    10946 Kempten
    10961 Zugspitze
    10962 Hohenpeissenberg

    dropdown selector at:

    http://www.dwd.de/de/FundE/Klima/KLIS/daten/online/nat/ausgabe_monatswerte.htm

  11. steven mosher
    Posted Mar 4, 2008 at 3:29 PM | Permalink

    re 10. Couldnt we just estimate german climate from stations 1200km away?

  12. Posted Mar 4, 2008 at 3:43 PM | Permalink

    re 10. Couldnt we just estimate german climate from stations 1200km away?

    That’s correct, but why interpolate if original data is available?

  13. steven mosher
    Posted Mar 4, 2008 at 3:56 PM | Permalink

    Hollister data is removed in step0.

    There is no documentation about why hollister is excluded. same with crater lake.

    So, data may be missing for various reasons. In the example of Hollister the data is
    there, but the first step excludes the data. I dont recal this being documented in H2001

    (Hollister has a kick ass dirt bike park BTW.)

    The list of stations EXCLUDED prior to processing:

    115624640010 HURGHADA lat,lon 27.3 33.8 omit: 0-9999
    134652010000 LAGOS/IKEJA lat,lon 6.6 3.3 omit: 0-9999
    134652360000 WARRI lat,lon 5.5 5.7 omit: 0-9999
    134652430000 LOKOJA lat,lon 7.8 6.7 omit: 0-9999
    205549450010 JUXIAN lat,lon 35.6 118.8 omit: 0-9999
    207433330002 PORT BLAIR lat,lon 11.7 92.7 omit: 0-9999
    210476960010 YOKOSUKA lat,lon 35.3 139.7 omit: 0-9999
    219415600005 PARACHINAR lat,lon 33.9 70.1 omit: 0-9999
    303824000000 FERNANDO DE N lat,lon -3.9 -32.4 omit: 0-9999
    314804440000 CIUDAD BOLIVA lat,lon 8.2 -63.5 omit: 0-9999
    403717300040 RUEL,ON lat,lon 47.3 -81.4 omit: 0-9999
    414762200010 CIUDAD GUERRERO,CHIHUAHUA lat,lon 28.6 -107.5 omit: 0-9999
    414762580020 QUIRIEGO, SONORA lat,lon 27.5 -109.2 omit: 0-9999
    414763730000 TEPEHUANES,DG lat,lon 25.4 -105.7 omit: 0-9999
    414766950010 CHAMPOTON, CAMPECHE lat,lon 19.4 -90.7 omit: 0-9999
    414767750030 CANTON, OAXACA lat,lon 18.0 -96.3 omit: 0-9999
    440785260010 ANNAS HOPE, ST.CROIX VIRG lat,lon 17.7 -66.7 omit: 0-9999
    425724910030 HOLLISTER USA lat,lon 36.8 -121.4 omit: 0-9999
    425725130010 FREELAND lat,lon 41.0 -75.9 omit: 0-9999
    425725210010 PHILO 3SW lat,lon 39.8 -81.9 omit: 0-9999
    425725970120 CRATER LAKE NPS HQ lat,lon 42.9 -122.1 omit: 0-9999
    425726710020 ROCK SPRINGS FAA AP lat,lon 41.6 -109.1 omit: 0-9999
    501947880000 KEMPSEY lat,lon -31.0 152.8 omit: 0-9999

  14. steven mosher
    Posted Mar 4, 2008 at 3:59 PM | Permalink

    re 12 why interpolate? to prove my superior math skills and freedom from the mundane task
    of collecting real data.

    ( Sorry hans, my sarcasm line is locked high )

  15. Posted Mar 4, 2008 at 4:41 PM | Permalink

    I suggest everyone who contributes here should, every morning, estimate what they think the temperature is in their part of the world. Steve can then take this data and do what he does best to produce an average temperature for the globe. Clearly the raw data is unimportant so this method would work as well as any other.

  16. LadyGray
    Posted Mar 4, 2008 at 5:03 PM | Permalink

    I suggest everyone who contributes here should, every morning, estimate what they think the temperature is in their part of the world.

    Is “darn cold” close enough of an estimate?

  17. Ellis
    Posted Mar 4, 2008 at 5:08 PM | Permalink

    Hansen 2001 pg. 7

    After examination of all of the stations in this region, five of the USHCN station records were altered in the GISS analysis because of inhomogeneities with neighboring stations (data prior to 1927 for Lake Spaulding, data prior to 1929 for Orleans, data prior to 1911 for Electra Ph, data prior of 1906 for Willows 6W, and all data for Crater Lake NPS HQ were omitted)…

    At least he explains Crater lake, although it is interesting that there is no mention of this in Hansen 1999.

  18. Posted Mar 4, 2008 at 6:20 PM | Permalink

    “Is darn cold close enough as an estimate”

    Is that likely or very likely darn cold?

  19. LadyGray
    Posted Mar 4, 2008 at 11:13 PM | Permalink

    It was pretty darn cold here, and really darn cold down in the valley. I suppose we need to modify the pretty darn cold by the really darn cold, and come up with an adjusted darn cold measurement that shows a warming trend from the mightily darn cold of twenty years ago (which was itself modified from a weather station about 1200 km northeast of here).

    [I do promise to stop the silliness here. Please don't delete me . . .]

  20. kim
    Posted Mar 4, 2008 at 11:15 PM | Permalink

    Darn up that ravelled sleeve of caring what the temperature is.
    ====================================

  21. Sven
    Posted Mar 5, 2008 at 12:16 AM | Permalink

    If you look for Kreuzburg in Sweden, I understand why its not found. There are a number of places to choose from, according to “http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kreuzburg”:

    Kreuzburg ist der Name mehrere Orte:

    * Kreuzburg (Oberschlesien), Stadt in Polen; siehe Kluczbork,
    * Kreuzburg (Ostpreußen), Stadt in Russland; siehe Slawskoje,
    * Kreuzburg, Ortsteil von Groß Pankow, Brandenburg; siehe Kreuzburg (Prignitz) sowie
    * Kreuzburg, frühere Schreibweise der Stadt Creuzburg an der Werra, Thüringen.

    My german is not the best, but to me it looks like it may be located in Poland, Russia or Germany.

  22. Posted Mar 5, 2008 at 2:38 AM | Permalink

    looking at the station list for Kreuzburg

    http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/station_data/v2.temperature.inv.txt

    iccWMO_#… Name Lat Lon Elev TElePTp VLoCoAdsbi
    64502456001 KREUZBURG SWEDEN 60.00 18.20 621 19R -9HIFOCO25x-9COOL MIXED

    I end up 100 km NE of Stockholm using 60N 18.20E

    http://maps.google.se/maps?f=q&hl=sv&geocode=&q=60+N+18.20+E&ie=UTF8&ll=60.005509,18.209152&spn=0.202527,0.493011&z=11&iwloc=addr

  23. Reference
    Posted Mar 5, 2008 at 2:41 AM | Permalink

    Isn’t it way past time that NASA, and Hansen in particular, were called to account for this lack of due diligence?

  24. Posted Mar 5, 2008 at 2:47 AM | Permalink

    re 4:

    http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/station_data/v2.temperature.inv.txt

    63306380000 MAASTRICHT AP 50.92 5.78 116 50U 146FLxxno-9x-9WARM FIELD WOODSC

    50.92N 5.87 E is situated on the airport:

    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=50.92N+5.78E&ie=UTF8&t=k&z=16&iwloc=addr

    so usually the coordinates in the list are a good approximation of the location.

  25. Jonas
    Posted Mar 5, 2008 at 2:52 AM | Permalink

    Sven,

    From the list you have:
    64502456001 KREUZBURG SWEDEN lat60.00 long18.20 elevation 621 (meter according to legend)

    From Wikipedia you have:
    Kreuzburg, former Germany now in Poland “Kluczbork”
    Coordinate 50° 59′ 0″ N, 18° 13′ 0″ Elevation 623 feet

    It seems someone made a mistake and rounded off 50° 59′ to 60° latitude and then (someone else) based on lat/long (correctly) ended up in Sweden, where Kreuzburg is unknown.

    No surprise they can’t find the data!

  26. Posted Mar 5, 2008 at 2:59 AM | Permalink

    nice tool google maps:
    Kreuzburg, former Germany now in Poland “Kluczbork”
    Coordinate 50° 59′ 0″ N, 18° 13′ 0″E Elevation 623 feet

    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=50%C2%B0+59%E2%80%B2+0%E2%80%B3+N,+18%C2%B0+13%E2%80%B2+0%E2%80%B3E&ie=UTF8&ll=50.205033,15.952148&spn=8.300584,15.776367&z=6&iwloc=addr

  27. Geoff Sherrington
    Posted Mar 5, 2008 at 5:07 AM | Permalink

    Kempsey missing

    Kempsey, New South Wales, lat -31.07 long 152.82, records started around 1882, but there was a break in recording at this Wide Street site from 1868-71, which then resumed to present. Australian number 059017. Kempsey airport AWS 059007 started Feb 2001 and appears to have operated since. The reason for the “deletion” might be the years of missing data, but that is a guess.

    Casey Missing

    Casey base Antarctic is administered by Australia. Lat approx -66, long 110E.
    Casey (Lanyon Junction) 300011 operated 1983-87. Casey (The Tunnel) 300006 1969-1989. Casey 300017 from Feb 89 to present.

    Given that Australia administers a substantial part of Antarctica and surrounding Islands (Heard, Macquarie), the non-island Antarctic weather stations total 3, at Davis (-68, 77E) Mawson/Casey (-67, 62E)and Wilkes (-66, 110E). Detailed records started about 1954 at the first station (Mawson). Henry at # 9 above, details Casey. All 3 went AWS in 1995 or so.

    Given the sparse data from the Antarctic, one must assume a good reason existed.I have found no reason for the deletion.

  28. Posted Mar 5, 2008 at 7:33 AM | Permalink

    Maybe we will skip also the February temperature statistics this year.

  29. John A
    Posted Mar 5, 2008 at 7:33 AM | Permalink

    This links to Gardolo, which is Trento North, Italy: http://meteogardolo.altervista.org/dati.htm

    This is current meteorological conditions although I couldn’t see on the website where the historical data comes from. It looks to me that Gardolo took over from Trento some time ago (or it was renamed for some reason)

    I will write to the contact on the site to ask him where the historical data for this site is.

  30. Joe Black
    Posted Mar 5, 2008 at 7:34 AM | Permalink

    …, and Hansen in particular, were called to account…..

    Hansen gets “treated” here:

    http://www.sepp.org/publications/NIPCC-Feb%2020.pdf

    http://www.sepp.org/publications/NIPCC-Feb%2020.pdf

  31. EW
    Posted Mar 5, 2008 at 8:01 AM | Permalink

    Regarding Czech stations:
    I already mused about this when trying to locate them for Warwick Hughes. As you see, the names aren’t Czech, but German, therefore a remnant from Austrian-Hungarian meteo-network (which was quite well developed at that time).
    The data for these stations are from 19th century only, the WMO numbers, under which these old stations are listed, belong now to stations sometimes kilometers away. I’ll now summarize what I found out:

    11438 Schossl
    Means Střelná in Czech, recent station situated at Kadaň-Tušimice. It‘s a region of surface brown coal mining visible on the map and in Tušimice, there is a big coal plant.
    114502 Tetschen
    (in Czech Děčín) Named Tetschen, but the station is now in Ústí nad Labem, which is 25 km from Děčín.
    114518 Smetschna
    The WMO number corresponds to an active station Praha-Ruzyne at the airport. Smetschna is an old German transcription of Smečno, which is about 25 km westward from Ruzyne Maybe there was once a station in Smetschna, which no longer exists.
    11643 Neurode 11643 Hohenelb
    Under that number we can now find a single station in Pec pod Sněžkou, a well-known mountain ski area. However, according to the coordinates, the original Neurode (Nowa Ruda) was in Poland, far on the other side of the Krkonose mountain range. Hohenelb is in Czech Vrchlabi and on the map it is visible in the lower left corner.
    11659 Deutschbrod
    Recent station of the samo No.is in Přibyslav. The actual Deutschbrod, now Havlíčkův Brod, has another station of its own, in Potato Res. Institute. The long-lat given points to Havl. Brod, but Přibyslav is 15 km to east. The GHCN data span only some 15-20 years after 1850, but both recent stations were alive and well at least in 2003.
    11679 Landskron (in Cz. Lanškroun)
    Station of the same No. is now in Ústí nad Orlicí, cca 17 km from Lanškroun. Again, the GHCN data span only some 15-20 years in 19th century, but the recent station was alive at least in 2003.
    11735 Leobschutz, now in Poland
    very close to Ostrava, where is another station, Ostrava-Mosnov (11782). However, the same WMO No. had the station at the very top of the mountain Praded. The station was the highest Czech one (1492 m), situated in Jeseniky mountains, but closed in 2000.

  32. EW
    Posted Mar 5, 2008 at 8:13 AM | Permalink

    Schossl was actually not Strelna, but Všestudy (N 50.45, E 13.50) and has data only from 1838-1865 which were homogenized for 3 missing months (as P. Stepanek Thesis supplement says). So that confirms that the other missing Czech data refer only to the historical records and the stations are nonexistent.

  33. Posted Mar 5, 2008 at 8:52 AM | Permalink

    Goree Senegal has the wrong lat long coordinates position, it is an island (famous for Dutch Slave trade, named after Goeree, good anchoring ground) in the bay of Dakar.
    It is listed as Dakar/Yoff 137616410001 in the raw GHCN giss table with data from 1949-1990

    http://data.giss.nasa.gov/work/gistemp/STATIONS//tmp.137616410001.0.1/station.txt

    Which is weird as NGDC reports data at Goree between 1931 and 1936.

    http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/ghcn/africa.html

    FRW3 Reseau Mondiale, Service Meteorologique de l’ Afrique Occidentale Francaise, Goree, Dakar, 1931-1936, This gives means for varying periods then data for individual years. It changes from Format A (1931-1933) to Format B (1934-1936).
    Location: NCDC; NML

  34. Posted Mar 5, 2008 at 10:14 AM | Permalink

    John A, #29
    regarding Trento, the station codex 16122 points to Paganella, that is the a mountain (2129 m) very close to Trento. The met station is managed by the meteorological service of the Italian air force, whose ICAO is LIVP

  35. arnold
    Posted Mar 5, 2008 at 10:31 AM | Permalink

    6258 61402844001 TORNEO FINLAND

    WMO 02844 = Pello kk (coordinates suck)

    6261 61402874001 CARLO FINLAND

    WMO 02874 = Hailuoto Ojakylä (no idea why CARLO?)

    6265 61402912001 WORO FINLAND

    WMO 02912 inexistent according to FMI webpages (but coordinates and name “WORO” could suggest location in Vöyri-Maksamaa)

    I believe FMI station data is not publicly available via WWW or FTP.

  36. EW
    Posted Mar 5, 2008 at 12:47 PM | Permalink

    #35
    I think that Torneo is the same case as the “deceased” Czech (Austro-Hungarian) stations. There are only the 19th century data and the recent but unincluded record might well be some nearby but different station. It’s easy to check this out on the Unur Sinan site. The graph is empty, but if you click, then the 19th century data will show up in a bigger pic.

  37. Posted Mar 5, 2008 at 1:00 PM | Permalink

    6258 61402844001 TORNEO FINLAND

    WMO 02844 = Pello kk (coordinates suck)

    6261 61402874001 CARLO FINLAND

    WMO 02874 = Hailuoto Ojakylä (no idea why CARLO?)

    List of operating stations, http://www.fmi.fi/saa/havainto_36.html , and
    pictures http://www.fmi.fi/saa/havainto_93.html

  38. EW
    Posted Mar 5, 2008 at 2:10 PM | Permalink

    UC – this will be the same case as Czech – the Finnish stations may have the same WMO, but they are relatively new and seems also sited somewhere else. I think that GHCN scraped together various old records to fill the 19th century, but these old stations should not be related with the present stations, even when WMO matches.

  39. CD
    Posted Mar 5, 2008 at 2:48 PM | Permalink

    UC #37 carlo is probably Karlö (the swedish name for hailuoto)
    Torneo should be Tornio and Woro Vörå

  40. JeanS
    Posted Mar 5, 2008 at 3:09 PM | Permalink

    6265 61402912001 WORO FINLAND
    WMO 02912 inexistent according to FMI webpages

    WMO 02912 is Vaasa Palosaari 6306 2136, an automated weather station (=automaattiasema in Finnish) which operated 13.12.1989-01.04.2001. Addition to UC’s lists (#37) of all operating Finnish stations, lists of all currently non-operating stations (with operating dates) is here: http://www.fmi.fi/saa/havainto_51.html Lists are according to the type of station (explained in Finnish here).

  41. John A
    Posted Mar 5, 2008 at 3:56 PM | Permalink

    I got a reply from Oskar regarding Trento:

    ci sono diverse serie dal 1920 x le Laste (centro) e dal 1978 x Roncafort (TrentoNord dalle quali ho tratto le medie)
    http://www.meteotrentino.it/storico/dataview.aspx?id=112

    From the page you select the station you want to see, then select “Temperatura”, the year (from 1920 onwards) and it displays minimum and maximum temperatures for every day in each month.

    For example, here is the maximum temperatures for Trento (Laste) recorded in 1921
    TEMPERATURE MINIME (°C) - Trento (Laste) - 1921

    Gennaio Febbraio Marzo Aprile Maggio Giugno Luglio Agosto Settembre Ottobre Novembre Dicembre
    1 0,1 1,8 2,5 7,3 8,6 16,3 16,8 18,7 17,7 8,6 2,8 -3,9
    2 -0,1 2 1,7 7,8 9,2 19,4 15,4 19 14 7,9 4,1 1
    3 1,8 0,9 2,5 8,1 7,9 17,5 16,9 21,4 16,3 9,5 5 2,9
    4 0,8 0,3 5,3 11 8,6 16 15 14,3 16,7 11,8 7,9 0,5
    5 0,6 -0,6 3,9 8,8 6,6 17,9 14,6 13,4 15,1 13,5 9 1,5
    6 1,7 -0,4 4,7 6,7 7,9 17,6 12,7 16,4 16,3 14 6,8 -0,3
    7 1,5 0,6 5,4 3,3 5,6 16,9 15,2 18,9 14,5 14,2 5 -0,8
    8 0,4 1,6 4,5 4,3 8,5 14,9 14,7 20 13 12,7 3,1 0,6
    9 -0,7 1 0,5 8,3 10,8 14 14,6 22,2 12,9 12,2 5,9 1,3
    10 -0,2 2,4 -0,2 8 10 13 14,5 21 14,4 11,6 5,2 6
    11 0,7 0,6 0,2 6,9 12,6 13 16,3 18,6 15,8 10,8 2,4 3,1
    12 -0,7 -1,3 1,8 9,3 12,4 13,1 18,1 13,3 18,5 12 2,4 0,5
    13 0,8 -1,4 1,7 8,1 13,5 17,6 19,4 12,5 16,1 12,6 1,6 -3
    14 1,4 -2 3,8 11,4 13,5 15,7 18,6 15 13,8 11,9 3,4 -5,2
    15 3,2 3,2 4 5 14,5 15,8 18,2 12,8 15,1 13,9 2,2 -7,5
    16 2 1,2 4 2,6 15,1 14,3 17,2 14,5 16,3 12,9 4 -6,8
    17 -0,4 3,1 4,1 4,1 15,3 13,7 16,9 12,8 17,5 11,5 1,6 -5,7
    18 -0,6 1,6 3,1 2,4 15,8 14,6 19,3 13,7 18,7 10,7 1,5 -4,5
    19 -1,2 1,6 4,8 1,2 14,7 14 17,8 15,7 15,8 9,7 1,2 -2,2
    20 0,3 0,5 6,2 3,1 16,7 13 18,1 15,9 14,9 10 0,1 -0,2
    21 2,8 1,7 4,7 3,2 15,6 11,4 19,6 16 14,8 9,9 0,5 -2,1
    22 1,6 1,3 6,2 5,3 15,5 11,8 18,9 16,1 15,8 9,1 0 -3,2
    23 0,1 -0,8 4,7 4,5 15,3 9,2 21,6 17,2 13,2 9 -0,9 -1,3
    24 4,8 0,4 5,2 3,8 14,9 12,6 20,1 16 14 8,6 -2,3 -1
    25 4,8 -1,1 6,8 8,6 14,7 13,9 19,1 15,4 13,7 7,3 -2,8 -0,2
    26 4,8 -1,6 8 8,8 14,7 18,4 20 15,5 12,8 4,5 -5,1 -2
    27 2,7 -0,2 8,1 10,1 14 16 21,1 16,4 11,7 5,8 -5,2 -3,8
    28 3,3 0,1 8,2 8,4 14,2 16,4 19,9 15,5 7,9 6,3 -3,9 -3,7
    29 1,1 - 8 8 14,2 17 21,9 16 6,9 7 -4,4 -4
    30 0,2 - 8,7 7,6 13 16,2 21,9 17,7 6,8 7,3 -4,9 0,9
    31 3,1 - 6,7 - 15 - 19,1 14,8 - 5,4 - -2

    If James Hansen would care to take time from his hectic schedule of giving interviews and actually do some proper work that the US taxpayers are paying him for, I’m sure he could collate that information in double quick time and improve his dataset.

  42. Posted Mar 5, 2008 at 4:33 PM | Permalink

    Of course GISS could also improve De Bilt by using homogenised data from the local experts:

    http://www.knmi.nl/klimatologie/daggegevens/antieke_wrn/index.html

    van Engelen and Nellestijn data (monthly 1706-2006):

    http://www.knmi.nl/klimatologie/daggegevens/antieke_wrn/labrijn_ea.zip

    http://www.knmi.nl/klimatologie/onderzoeksgegevens/homogeen_260/index.html

    Brandsma data (monthly 1901-current):

    http://www.knmi.nl/klimatologie/onderzoeksgegevens/homogeen_260/tg_hom_mnd260.txt

  43. Posted Mar 5, 2008 at 10:11 PM | Permalink

    UC…. Sorry for the OT but I know you are reading this thread. I know you know statistics and time series better than I. If I publish something privately and give you a password, could you tell me if something I did is full of do-do? Please email me at lucia@thedietdiary.com JeanS’s proof reading skills would also be welcome!

  44. Gerald Machnee
    Posted Mar 6, 2008 at 9:19 AM | Permalink

    The Crater Lake would be interesting. Are there nearby stations that are similar? I was there in July, 1999. It is around 5000 feet ASL. The snow and ice takes along time to melt. Only one road was open in July. I do not know where the station siting is or how much the lake influences the readings. But I think the results of this one would be interesting to look at.

  45. steven mosher
    Posted Mar 6, 2008 at 1:28 PM | Permalink

    re 44. ATMOZ did a quick study on it. There is no stark difference between Crater Lake
    and it’s neighbors, however Anthony has noted some siting issues.

    My focused tiny point was this: H2001 deletes the site, notes the deletion, and gives no
    account of it, other than ” the final answer doesnt change.”

    I dont like that approach.

  46. steven mosher
    Posted Mar 6, 2008 at 1:31 PM | Permalink

    Found this: I always wondered about Hansens 1200km thing

    Several thousands of temperature records from the Global Daily Climatology Network are analysed by means of detrended fluctuation analysis (DFA). Long-range temporal power-law correlations extending up to several years are detected for each station. Contrary to earlier claims, the correlation exponent is not universal for continental locations. Short-range correlations are also evaluated by DFA and by first order autoregressive models. The strength of short- and long-range temporal correlations seems to be coupled for large geographic areas. The spatial patterns are quite complex, simple parameter dependence such as elevation or distance from oceans cannot explain the observed variability.

  47. Willis Eschenbach
    Posted Mar 6, 2008 at 10:25 PM | Permalink

    HELP! Can someone please, please tell me where to find the GISS adjusted and unadjusted records?

    w.

  48. JerryB
    Posted Mar 7, 2008 at 4:30 AM | Permalink

    Willis,

    On the GISS page at http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/station_data/

    you can find the line reading:

    1) Select a specific data set from the pull-down menu below.

    and then at

    Data Set:

    you can choose among:

    raw GHCN data+USHCN corrections
    after combining sources at same location
    after homogeneity adjustment

    The monthly numbers of:
    the first option do not include GISS adjustments,
    the second option may include some GISS adjustments,
    the third option may include full GISS adjustments.

    YMMV

  49. Steve McIntyre
    Posted Mar 7, 2008 at 7:23 AM | Permalink

    #47. Collated versions are available, where else, at CA -see, unsurprisingly, CA/data/giss

  50. KM
    Posted Mar 7, 2008 at 11:24 AM | Permalink

    Lund, Sweden – yes that’s a tough one. Lund is incidentally the seat of the largest University in Scandinavia and they have climate data since 1780 on file.

    Visit SMHI (government agency for climate observations etc) web site and discover that they have the data needed for Lund (but missing Kreuzburg :-).

    Not only that, but if you send them a nice email to klimatdata(at)smhi.se they will send the data to you.

    Cheers from a Swede at large in France

  51. Bob Koss
    Posted Mar 7, 2008 at 12:46 PM | Permalink

    Steve Mc,

    re #49

    I assume you mean the files with the tab extensions in the data\giss folder. Those are unreadable binary files and not text.

    Steve:
    Those are R-objects and can be loaded directly into an R-session. I’m trying to discourage people using Excel or things like that for statistical analysis. If you simply want single site info, you can cut and paste from NASA.

  52. Willis Eschenbach
    Posted Mar 7, 2008 at 12:49 PM | Permalink

    Steve M., yours was the first place I looked. Unfortunately, both the giss.dset1.tab and the giss.dset2.tab datasets which you mentioned are in some unknown format which reads like Martian. Am I reading the wrong files, or what is the format, or what the !@#$%^& am I doing wrong?

    w.

    Steve: Ill add in a readme on this.

  53. tty
    Posted Mar 7, 2008 at 5:12 PM | Permalink

    Re 37: Carlo (modern spelling Karlö) is the swedish name for Hailuoto. That part of Finland has a partly swedish-speaking population.

  54. Willis Eschenbach
    Posted Mar 7, 2008 at 6:26 PM | Permalink

    Thanks, Steve. Could you include the R code to read the objects? I agree with pushing people to use R, and example code is worth everything.

    All the best,

    w.

  55. Filippo Turturici
    Posted Mar 11, 2008 at 5:14 AM | Permalink

    I am “from” one of those stations: Padova (English: Padua).
    The station (I think they refer to the official airport one) has been shut up several years ago, about 20; since then, we have a few amateur stations (but usually with WMO standards) and a rural station just out of the hurban area.

  56. Filippo Turturici
    Posted Mar 11, 2008 at 5:17 AM | Permalink

    Sorry: I meant just “shut” :)

  57. Posted Jun 20, 2008 at 3:28 PM | Permalink

    Heh, I think NASA’s problems started sometime before the last Challenger mission, continued with Columbia and Lisa Marie Nowak, and this is simply further evidence of decay en masse. ;)

  58. BarryW
    Posted Jun 21, 2008 at 8:20 AM | Permalink

    Re 57:

    Goes back farther than that. The Shuttle design itself was a major manifestation of the problems and much of that started at the top (Fletcher for one).

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